How Do Atheists Handle World Events: Scenario 2 Miracles

[Searching1981]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

 

[Nietzsche]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.

This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

Check myself into a psychiatric facility because what you've just described is an intense paranoid delusion.

 

[Searching1981]

Check myself into a psychiatric facility because what you've just described is an intense paranoid delusion.

lol! Well, no it's not a paranoid delusion. Paranoia refers to feelings of threat or harm, which may be either unreal or exaggerated. Delusion refers to a thought system where there is no evidence for it. There is no feeling of threat or harm and there is evidence for it, quite a bit of evidence for it.

But, what I think you are saying is you would lose control and a loss of control would make you feel unstable.

Again, I'm just taking a hammer to your idols as Nietzche advised. That ruffles feathers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

Lay off You Tube for awhile.

 

[Quetzal]

Tell ya what... when those things start happening with regularity and with evidence, we can talk.

 

[Searching1981]

Lay off You Tube for awhile.

So, you would ignore it by ignoring Youtube? Or are you suggesting there are videos on this on Youtube?

 

[Searching1981]

Tell ya what... when those things start happening with regularity and with evidence, we can talk.

So, you would get angry? Don't, this is a thought exercise.

But, again, what is evidence? What would constitute evidence when you are presented with evidence? As the thought exercise says, the media, government, scientist all know about it; many people who are social know about it. You are just out of the loop...maybe there is a reason for that.

 

[Nietzsche]

lol! Well, no it's not a paranoid delusion. Paranoia refers to feelings of threat or harm, which may be either unreal or exaggerated. Delusion refers to a thought system where there is no evidence for it. There is no feeling of threat or harm and there is evidence for it, quite a bit of evidence for it.

That's the thing about a delusion. Your brain is very good at finding evidence where there is none. What you've described is a much worse version of paranoid delusions I've had before I was medicated.

 

[Searching1981]

That's the thing about a delusion. Your brain is very good at finding evidence where there is none. What you've described is a much worse version of paranoid delusions I've had before I was medicated.

Oh, friend, I'm sorry to hear that. Just forget this conversation. I apologize.

 

[Quetzal]

So, you would get angry?

That isn't what I said.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I was once asked, decades ago, what it would take for me to Believe in (a) God.

My initial reply, was, "A god who acted Godly, instead of what we observe."

Of course, that wasn't good enough for Believers. They insisted I needed to go into detail.

Okay.

Reply 1:

A massive cube made of pure, single-isotope Iridium, 100 feet high, 100 feet on a side-- or even better, exactly biblical 120 cubits on an edge. Solid. Not radioactive. Did I mention a pure, single isotope-- impossible even with today's incredible advances in chemistry.

On this cube? In every language on the planet, past, present and future?

God's instructions to It's Creation. How to behave, etc.

But wait-- there's more-- the cube would also be readable even by individuals who could not read! They would look at the cube, and immediately be drawn to a section in which the instructions would be instantly clear, and no room for ambiguity. Even for blind people.

Such a Thing (for it could only be a Capital-T 'thing', never just an ordinary thing...) would be impossible for mere humans to destroy or hide for most of human history. It would take until the modern age, with atomic energy, before most human tech could even make a dent in it.

Thus, even if destroyed, it'd be deeply embedded into all the world's cultures.

There would be annual pilgrimages to go and See The Message From The Creator.

And since it would be Magically Unambiguous? No Matter What? It would be impossible for people to wage wars over what it meant-- oh, sure, humans could still war over resources or women or slave ownership or similar, mundane things.

But no more war over religion... which would eliminate most of them.

I have yet to see a reply from a Theist, that wasn't insulting to one's intelligence, or deliberate talking down to me, from a self-congratulatory "superior" position.

"Oh, you just want it easy."

As a matter of fact? I do -- that is the LEAST-- the ABSOLUTE LEAST that a god could do!

"But that would eliminate faith!"

Yes. Yes it would. Which is a GOOD thing. Faith is what has lead to 40,000 different brands of JUST CHRISTIANITY ALONE! Because there is nothing behind the faith--it's belief in things for which there is no evidence-- so it's not based in reality.

A giant cube would be Exhibit 1.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

Can you refine this thought experiment a bit?

You present a set of hypothetical experiences that might be interesting, but it also requires knowledge of stuff that is beyond that experience, like a conspiracy from scientists that we aren't supposed to know about, yet it gets factored into the experiment.

It's poorly designed, as written, so I can't comment on it. Make it non-contradictory and present a stable subjective perspective of hypothetical events, and maybe I'll bother. . .

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Exhibit 2:

Much later on, someone pointed out that the Cube would create a problem-- the land wherein the cube was placed, would be come Sacrosanct. And any country that was able to claim the Cube within it's borders? Would automatically be elevated above the rest.

Not good. Certainly not egalitarian. A god who had Morals with an M?

Would never, ever play special favorites! Such behavior is ... immoral. Beneath a God.

So. Remove the Cube.

Replace it with giant words-- which would appear across the face of Every Full Moon, easily legible and readable by anyone on earth (if the moon was up, of course).

But ONLY once a month, and ONLY right at the peak of the Full Moon-- so as to not spoil the view-- why muck up a perfectly good moonrise with words that everyone has memorized anyway?

The Words would be, again, in everyone's language-- even if you did not read. Even if you were blind from birth. Anyone looking up would instantly recognize they were Words From The Creator, and What Is Expected. No ambiguity-- these are Divine Words-- there is no room for interpretation, nor is there a need.

So, basically the same as the Cube, except that it's not on earth. To avoid that whole, "We Are Special Because We Have The Cube" stchick.

 

[Searching1981]

I was once asked, decades ago, what it would take for me to Believe in (a) God.

My initial reply, was, "A god who acted Godly, instead of what we observe."

Of course, that wasn't good enough for Believers. They insisted I needed to go into detail.

Okay.

Reply 1:

A massive cube made of pure, single-isotope Iridium, 100 feet high, 100 feet on a side-- or even better, exactly biblical 120 cubits on an edge. Solid. Not radioactive. Did I mention a pure, single isotope-- impossible even with today's incredible advances in chemistry.

On this cube? In every language on the planet, past, present and future?

God's instructions to It's Creation. How to behave, etc.

But wait-- there's more-- the cube would also be readable even by individuals who could not read! They would look at the cube, and immediately be drawn to a section in which the instructions would be instantly clear, and no room for ambiguity. Even for blind people.

Such a Thing (for it could only be a Capital-T 'thing', never just an ordinary thing...) would be impossible for mere humans to destroy or hide for most of human history. It would take until the modern age, with atomic energy, before most human tech could even make a dent in it.

Thus, even if destroyed, it'd be deeply embedded into all the world's cultures.

There would be annual pilgrimages to go and See The Message From The Creator.

And since it would be Magically Unambiguous? No Matter What? It would be impossible for people to wage wars over what it meant-- oh, sure, humans could still war over resources or women or slave ownership or similar, mundane things.

But no more war over religion... which would eliminate most of them.

I have yet to see a reply from a Theist, that wasn't insulting to one's intelligence, or deliberate talking down to me, from a self-congratulatory "superior" position.

"Oh, you just want it easy."

As a matter of fact? I do -- that is the LEAST-- the ABSOLUTE LEAST that a god could do!

"But that would eliminate faith!"

Yes. Yes it would. Which is a GOOD thing. Faith is what has lead to 40,000 different brands of JUST CHRISTIANITY ALONE! Because there is nothing behind the faith--it's belief in things for which there is no evidence-- so it's not based in reality.

A giant cube would be Exhibit 1.

Hey, I love you friend. That is the most thought out, intelligent, personally authentic response I've ever seen on the internet. What you write is true. Let me think about it for a while. All I can say, is we all go to Heaven so keep being yourself because when you die one day you will see it is just a transition with no gap in continuity.

Thank you for that response. I'm humbled.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

In this hypothetical example, as it is obviously not true, it would be possible to study the effects of these "miracles" scientifically and the scientific community would revise their theories to better match reality as they have done since science has existed.

 

[HonestJoe]

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

Why would an atheist address this any differently to a theist? There’s no direct connection between the things you describe and generic belief or non-belief in gods. There’s obviously some connection between miracles and gods but not enough to make such a clear distinction.

You’re not really offering a hypothetical because these things are claimed as asserted but I can only tell you how I personally and individually address them; Generally not at all. Random YouTube videos, claims on blogs, obscure books and the like will generally pass me by and even when I do come across them, they have no direct impact on me and so are of little interest beyond briefly entertaining curiosity.

I don’t believe in miracles and when I say that I mean they’re literally impossible as defined. Miracle essentially means “Something that can’t happen has happened” which is ridiculous. It reality, we’re just talking about events (or alleged events) that have no established cause (or the established cause is denied) and some alternative cause is asserted for them. There is typically little or no evidence for the asserted cause, often even convenient claims that evidence is impossible to present, at least to “outsiders”.

It’s also worth remembering that there have been examples of things initially declared “miraculous” that are subsequently discovered to have perfectly rational explanations, having either been misunderstood or misrepresented. I’ve yet to see any reason to believe that all other purported miracles could have similar boring old explanations.

And even if we discovered some forces, energy or human capabilities not currently known or understood, that still wouldn’t be “miraculous” because it would have a rational explanation. Our ignorance doesn’t make the things we’re ignorant of magical.

 

[shunyadragon]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

Murmurs and rumors of miracles are a blue smoke and mirrors, and dog and pony circus side show, that are easily ignored by legitimate science including theists like my self. Atheists, all sane people, only will chuckle and s****** at the ridiculous claims of miracles cited above.

Nothing presented here represents objective evidence that may be consistently testable by scientific methods.

 

[shunyadragon]

In this hypothetical example, as it is obviously not true, it would be possible to study the effects of these "miracles" scientifically and the scientific community would revise their theories to better match reality as they have done since science has existed.

I seriously question this proposal of revision to better match reality. I believe that miracles have been found wanting in terms of predicable and testable hypothesis in the past, and will likely continue to do so without revising their theories.

 

[leibowde84]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

I would say that without verifiable evidence, there is no reason to believe that any of these things exist. But, if there is evidence of these things mentioned, I would like to see it. Especially limbs growing back ... can you provide some evidence of this?

 

[leibowde84]

lol! Well, no it's not a paranoid delusion. Paranoia refers to feelings of threat or harm, which may be either unreal or exaggerated. Delusion refers to a thought system where there is no evidence for it. There is no feeling of threat or harm and there is evidence for it, quite a bit of evidence for it.

But, what I think you are saying is you would lose control and a loss of control would make you feel unstable.

Again, I'm just taking a hammer to your idols as Nietzche advised. That ruffles feathers.

Can you provide some evidence?