How do believers speak for god?

[Trailblazer]

Wouldn't it be better to say the messenger X says instead of god says?

Yes, and isn't that what I usually say? "Baha'u'llah wrote that...."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, and isn't that what I usually say? "Baha'u'llah wrote that...."

But the quote I used of yours as an example doesn't say Bahaullah or messengers. It assumes that god actually thinks, is aware, does, and says things. A person reading that can't guess that it wasn't you who spoke for god but messengers. They'd have to know that you are speaking for the messengers and they of god. Not everyone can ascertain that without a very brief point of reference.

 

[Trailblazer]

But the quote I used of yours as an example doesn't say Bahaullah or messengers. It assumes that god actually thinks, is aware, does, and says things. A person reading that can't guess that it wasn't you who spoke for god but messengers. They'd have to know that you are speaking for the messengers and they of god. Not everyone can ascertain that without a very brief point of reference.

What quote was that? I was unable to find it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I consider myself God's personal puppet, but the point of my existence might be to serve as a lesson to others as what not to do, all good.

Hm. A lot of believers feel, guessing, that behavior isn't enough. They speak for god and evangalize... maybe words are better than actions. What behavior or actions do you express that others will know to whom those actions are attributed to? How do people know your actions speak for god?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What quote was that? I was unable to find it.

@Trailblazer.... Just because God knew what brains have the capacity to do that does not mean God intended for them to do anything. God does not determine what humans do, humans do.

I was referring to these type quotes from various people who knows what god does, his motivations (intended), his thoughts (does not determine), and things of that nature.

If a believer did not speak for god he or she would ideally have a point of reference (a citation). Even so, though, that would only work for conversation clarity. Many people use language that quite bluntly shows they speak for god. How?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What quote was that? I was unable to find it.

I'll take your quote specifically:

Just because God knew what brains have the capacity to do that does not mean God intended for them to do anything. God does not determine what humans do, humans do.

If you spoke for messengers, it would be more the messengers knew that god knew what brains... but (at least English wise) when you say "god knew" you're speaking for god's knowledge not the messengers. We cannot know you're not speaking for god when you say god knew and god does not determine.

How can I know you weren't speaking for god from that quote (and context) alone?

 

[JoshuaTree]

Hm. A lot of believers feel, guessing, that behavior isn't enough. They speak for god and evangalize... maybe words are better than actions. What behavior or actions do you express that others will know to whom those actions are attributed to? How do people know your actions speak for god?

They can't know that, unless God enables them to know. We all play a part in God's perfect plan whether we realize it or not. Someone hates their neighbor, part of God's plan, they just don't realize it (yet).

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer.... Just because God knew what brains have the capacity to do that does not mean God intended for them to do anything. God does not determine what humans do, humans do.

I was referring to these type quotes from various people who knows what god does, his motivations (intended), his thoughts (does not determine), and things of that nature.

If a believer did not speak for god he or she would ideally have a point of reference (a citation). Even so, though, that would only work for conversation clarity. Many people use language that quite bluntly shows they speak for god. How?

I could have dug up quotes from the Baha'i Writings but you have told me you don't like those quotes. Resides, what I said comes from a variety of Baha'i Writings, and I cannot post all of that.

It is a given that if God created humans God knew what their brain capacity would be, and it is a given that if humans have free will God does not determine what humans do. That is not speaking for God. That is just logical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I could have dug up quotes from the Baha'i Writings but you have told me you don't like those quotes. Resides, what I said comes from a variety of Baha'i Writings, and I cannot post all of that.

It is a given that if God created humans God knew what their brain capacity would be, and it is a given that if humans have free will God does not determine what humans do. That is not speaking for God. That is just logical.

When you say "god knew" it means you are speaking for god's motives, knowledge, (thoughts, and actions). If not, how would you know and why would you say you know?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They can't know that, unless God enables them to know. We all play a part in God's perfect plan whether we realize it or not. Someone hates their neighbor, part of God's plan, they just don't realize it (yet).

Can god tell people what he wants them to say?

 

[JoshuaTree]

Can god tell people what he wants them to say?

We all say exactly what God wants us to say, listening is a gift though.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They can't know that, unless God enables them to know. We all play a part in God's perfect plan whether we realize it or not. Someone hates their neighbor, part of God's plan, they just don't realize it (yet).

Not according to Christianity.
Unless it's the fatalist version.
If someone hates, they are doing the enemies will, not God's will.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Not according to Christianity.
Unless it's the fatalist version.
If someone hates, they are doing the enemies will, not God's will.

What is hate, not loving your neighbor as yourself?

 

[Wildswanderer]

What is hate, not loving your neighbor as yourself?

I always thought that hate was pretty self-explanatory.

hate
/hāt/


verb

1. feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).

Although I think of hate more like a choice, because it usually involves actions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We all say exactly what God wants us to say, listening is a gift though.

I usually hear only prophets, saints, manifestations, and incarnations hear god (and speak for him). That and biblical inspired authors.

Do believers share in their gifts?

 

[Trailblazer]

When you say "god knew" it means you are speaking for god's motives, knowledge, (thoughts, and actions). If not, how would you know and why would you say you know?

Whenever I say "God knew"that is predicated upon my belief that God is all-knowing. That means God knows everything and God also knows past present and future as it applies to this material world.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Whenever I say "God knew"that is predicated upon my belief that God is all-knowing. That means God knows everything and God also knows past present and future as it applies to this material world.

How do "you" know this?

How would we know that you're speaking from bahai writings and not from your opinion soley based on saying what "you' know."

It sounds like a technicality but I see a difference between I know God is all powerful and he doesn't lie vs. bahullah says....

While I don't like scripture quoting in this context it relieved confusion when you say you know what god does but you mean instead you know what you've been told.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do "you" know this?

How would we know that you're speaking from bahai writings and not from your opinion soley based on saying what "you' know."

It sounds like a technicality but I see a difference between I know God is all powerful and he doesn't lie vs. bahullah says....

While I don't like scripture quoting in this context it relieved confusion when you say you know what god does but you mean instead you know what you've been told.

The Bible also says that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, so the belief did not originate with the Baha'i Faith.
Believers know these things because the Bible says or Baha'u'llah says.

 

[JoshuaTree]

I usually hear only prophets, saints, manifestations, and incarnations hear god (and speak for him). That and biblical inspired authors.

Do believers share in their gifts?

The gift is the believing, not the speaking.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bible also says that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, so the belief did not originate with the Baha'i Faith.
Believers know these things because the Bible says or Baha'u'llah says.

My question though has to do with your word choice. If only bahalluah knows why say you know?

It gives the impression you're speaking for god because that is literally how it reads.