How Do Christians Reconcile The Following Question Regarding Their Faith?

[prometheus11]

You could read the book of Revelation. God is definitely powerful enough to stop human wickedness. Right now He is giving each person the opportunity to repent from their sinfulness before He brings judgment.

What does that have to do with allowing baby cancer? Why is that so necessary?

 

[prometheus11]

I think you can keep turning it around blaming God endlessly if it makes you feel better, but I see it as just an escape mechanism from admitting that humans are personally responsible for their own evil deeds. That is the plain and simple message concerning wickedness in the scriptures.

I'm not blaming God. I'm asking questions about why ANY God would allow some atrocities.

Could God have everything he wants yet not allow mass murder and baby cancer?

If yes, then it seems horrible of him to allow those horrors.

If no, then how is he powerful enough to be called God?

 

[rusra02]

I was a devoted Christian for a very long time, 25 years or more - a Trinity believing Protestant taught that our creator God is omniscient (all-knowing) omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). This creator designed and created men and women fully and completely all by 'himself'.

What I don't understand, is if this creator purposefully designed and unleashed upon the earth a creature capable of rape and murder, why isn't 'He' to blame for these atrocities? Why would you construct a being with the potential to do so much harm to his fellow humans? What was the motive?

If my son murdered a human and I supplied the gun knowing ahead of time he'd shoot someone, I'm held accountable for my part in the homicide. How much more so should God be held accountable for DESIGNING a creature that he KNOWS ahead of time (he's omniscient, remember) will murder a fellow human?

I believe God does not choose to foreknow all the actions his creatures choose to take. (2 Chronicles 32:31) It was a spirit son of God who first allowed himself to selfishly desire what did not belong to him, and who turned himself into an evil liar and murderer. Many people believe perfection means a person cannot do wrong. That defines a robot, not a perfect creature. A perfect creature reflects the love and other qualities of his Creator because he choose to, not because he is forced to. (Joshua 24:15)

 

[InChrist]

I'm not blaming God. I'm asking questions about why ANY God would allow some atrocities.

Could God have everything he wants yet not allow mass murder and baby cancer?

If yes, then it seems horrible of him to allow those horrors.

If no, then how is he powerful enough to be called God?

Either you accept the perspective of the scriptures with regard to reality or you come up with your own, which includes rejecting the biblical worldview and blaming God instead of humanity for evil and suffering. According to the scriptures God's purpose in the first place for creating humans included the necessity of their freewill, which in turn included the possibility of wrong choices with bad consequences, like murder and sickness. Once this sin entered the world through humanity, the subsequent negative consequences impacted all of creation with evil and suffering revealing. The suffering and evil you keep focusing on should be a wake-up call.


Is it Possible for God to Provide "Partial Free Will" and Eliminate All Evil?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/evil_free_will.html

 

[prometheus11]

Either you accept the perspective of the scriptures with regard to reality or you come up with your own, which includes rejecting the biblical worldview and blaming God instead of humanity for evil and suffering.

No. There's all sorts of other options. That's a false dichotomy.

According to the scriptures God's purpose in the first place for creating humans included the necessity of their freewill, which in turn included the possibility of wrong choices with bad consequences, like murder and sickness.

No. God could allow free will without allowing baby cancer and mass murderers. That's obviously true, because God doesn't allow humans to fly by flapping their arms and he doesn't allow rape victims the choice of becoming invisible.


There's nothing about free will that requires mass murder and baby cancer.

Once this sin entered the world through humanity, the subsequent negative consequences impacted all of creation with evil and suffering revealing. The suffering and evil you keep focusing on should be a wake-up call.

God allowed for the possibility. He could (supposedly) have made the world less fragile. It's like he made a car that when it gets into a tiny fender bender it blows up and levels a city block....and you blame the driver instead of the car manufacturer.

 

[prometheus11]

Is it Possible for God to Provide "Partial Free Will" and Eliminate All Evil?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/evil_free_will.html

Let me guess, that web site claims that god's just not powerful enough to have free will without allowing evil?

Poor God, he's got to follow rules he didn't make himself. I wonder who forces God to allow evil if he's going to have free will? You'd think we'd call that fella God, wouldn't you? I mean, he tells God what he can and can't go regarding evil and free will.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I believe that is the case. The right comes by the fact that He created all things so all things fall under His authority.

Not authority. Responsibility.

 

[RedDragon94]

I was a devoted Christian for a very long time, 25 years or more - a Trinity believing Protestant taught that our creator God is omniscient (all-knowing) omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). This creator designed and created men and women fully and completely all by 'himself'.

What I don't understand, is if this creator purposefully designed and unleashed upon the earth a creature capable of rape and murder, why isn't 'He' to blame for these atrocities? Why would you construct a being with the potential to do so much harm to his fellow humans? What was the motive?

If my son murdered a human and I supplied the gun knowing ahead of time he'd shoot someone, I'm held accountable for my part in the homicide. How much more so should God be held accountable for DESIGNING a creature that he KNOWS ahead of time (he's omniscient, remember) will murder a fellow human?

It could be that the Christian god is evil. Then there's my belief which says God is imperfect and the symbol of collective conscience. If God lacks perfection then it explains why things go wrong, because God is wrong. It almost doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me coming from a Christian background, but according to reason it explains everything.

 

[roger1440]

I was a devoted Christian for a very long time, 25 years or more - a Trinity believing Protestant taught that our creator God is omniscient (all-knowing) omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). This creator designed and created men and women fully and completely all by 'himself'.

What I don't understand, is if this creator purposefully designed and unleashed upon the earth a creature capable of rape and murder, why isn't 'He' to blame for these atrocities? Why would you construct a being with the potential to do so much harm to his fellow humans? What was the motive?

If my son murdered a human and I supplied the gun knowing ahead of time he'd shoot someone, I'm held accountable for my part in the homicide. How much more so should God be held accountable for DESIGNING a creature that he KNOWS ahead of time (he's omniscient, remember) will murder a fellow human?

Yeah, you are right. Why should I take responsibility for my own actions?

 

[Yoshua]

How do you know for yourself that what the Bible claims is "truth", and that the texts describing his years in India are "not truth"? I don't know for myself that someone(s) didn't write a prophecy, and wrote the alleged fulfillment at the same time, or that someone decided to imagine a story - one that I cannot verify for myself - which "fulfills" an earlier prophecy.

Hi Buddhist,

By research and studying the Scriptures; faith and trust God that He truly sent Jesus Christ for us. We can't go back to their time to prove (personally) that the accounts in the Bible were truly transpired. If truly there are text that described Jesus in India, I would like to see it. In the first place, no prophecy in the Old Testament that says He goes to India.

From my understanding of Greek and Hebrew, I would respectfully disagree. IMO the Bible, in the original languages, teaches a finite heaven and hell.

Thank you!

Christian Bible translations use the words "eternal" or "everlasting" to describe heaven, hell, and even the Christian god himself. Unfortunately, those English words are not an accurate translation of the actual words in the Hebrew and Greek, namely "olam" and "aeon".

"Eternal life" or "eternal suffering in hell" or "everlasting god" should actually be understood as "life for an aeon", "suffering in hell for an aeon" or "god who lives for an aeon".

"Aeon" in the Greek refers to an extremely long time period with an undefined end, but is still limited. Modern Bible translators perform a disservice by not translating the words accurately.

It appears that Christianity might be closer to the Dharmic religions and their ideas of samsara and rebirth than generally understood. (from heaven and hell thread by Buddhist)

Therefore, what do you think the exact English wording if it is not eternal life based on your defined "life for an aeon", "suffering in hell for an aeon" or "god who lives for an aeon". Could these defined terms will be consistent about God who is eternal and existing before man?

The "aeon" is agelong or eternal. I don't see any defined meaning to support your definition of "extremely long time period with an undefined end." May I know where did you get the source that "aeon" is limited and with undefined end despite you defined it as extremely long period??

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

You didn't answer the question.

Hi Prometheus,

Can you refresh me if what question that I did not answered?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Either God allows wickedness, or he isn't powerful enough to stop wickedness. Which is it?

Hi Prometheus,

God is powerful. He can stop wickedness and may allow it based on His judgment, but one thing for sure He knows what He is doing for He is God.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

It could be that the Christian god is evil. Then there's my belief which says God is imperfect and the symbol of collective conscience. If God lacks perfection then it explains why things go wrong, because God is wrong. It almost doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me coming from a Christian background, but according to reason it explains everything.

Hi RedDragon,

How could you say that Christian God is evil; imperfect and symbol of collective conscience??

Thanks

 

[buddhist]

By research and studying the Scriptures; faith and trust God that He truly sent Jesus Christ for us. We can't go back to their time to prove (personally) that the accounts in the Bible were truly transpired.

Studying a book cannot prove that its recorded events and message are authentic, however. If that is so, I could say that the works of Arthur Conan Doyle proves the existence and work of Sherlock Holmes.

If truly there are text that described Jesus in India, I would like to see it.

This might interest you.

In the first place, no prophecy in the Old Testament that says He goes to India.

It seems you are using the Old Testament as your authority. How did you judge the Old Testament to be more authoritative, over the writings that speak of Jesus in India, or any other text?

Could these defined terms will be consistent about God who is eternal and existing before man?

Isn't the idea that your "God is eternal" an assumption?

The "aeon" is agelong or eternal. I don't see any defined meaning to support your definition of "extremely long time period with an undefined end." May I know where did you get the source that "aeon" is limited and with undefined end despite you defined it as extremely long period??

My evaluation is based on etymology, lexiography, and context involved in its historical use. Aeon = eon; an eon is extremely long, of an unperceivable length (aka undefined end), but not infinite.

 

[RedDragon94]

Hi RedDragon,

How could you say that Christian God is evil; imperfect and symbol of collective conscience??

Thanks

I tried to make a distinction between what I think and what Christianity teaches to no avail. If the Christian God created us knowing that we would commit all the atrocities our species has; he's at best irresponsible, at worst sadistic. IMO the reason why these bad things happen is because God is not perfect. If God were perfect the evils of this place would be stopped, instead they persist. Therefore, God doesn't have a perfect record. As a matter of fact I think God is his creation. (Instead of the word conscience I meant to put consciousness) We are one with God, God is all around us. But he, she, or they are not bound to anything except their nature. This is why things go wrong.

 

[RedDragon94]

Yeah, you are right. Why should I take responsibility for my own actions?

Because the Christian God has the power to stop us from sinning and he doesn't. He doesn't care what you do. He just gives us a book and expects that to solve everything.

 

[Yoshua]

No. God could allow free will without allowing baby cancer and mass murderers. That's obviously true, because God doesn't allow humans to fly by flapping their arms and he doesn't allow rape victims the choice of becoming invisible.


There's nothing about free will that requires mass murder and baby cancer.

Prometheus,

I remembered the life of Job in the Bible. From richest to rags, he experienced it. You may considered checking out with his story. God is still in control of everything despite of all things that the corrupted world affected humanity.

Another thing is just like my (male) friend who discovered he has cancer since last quarter of year 2015. The cancer spread up to his lungs already before they found out. Since then he is taking chemotheraphy until now. He is a church staff, an active song leader in a church. Their family line has a history of cancer, her sister was already passed away a long time ago due to brain cancer. My friend has two kids, still studying in elementary school. Her wife resigned from her stable job to take care my friend. They're both jobless. They take their faith and depends on the grace of God. How about that? How about a Christian who is living without arms/legs or without limb? Yet they praised God; seek to continue to walk in righteousness and giving a bold testimony with other people.

God allowed for the possibility. He could (supposedly) have made the world less fragile. It's like he made a car that when it gets into a tiny fender bender it blows up and levels a city block....and you blame the driver instead of the car manufacturer.

What could we do if we are only human? He could do so many things that we want to happen in our world, but His will is still the right thing to do.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

I tried to make a distinction between what I think and what Christianity teaches to no avail. If the Christian God created us knowing that we would commit all the atrocities our species has; he's at best irresponsible, at worst sadistic. IMO the reason why these bad things happen is because God is not perfect. If God were perfect the evils of this place would be stopped, instead they persist. Therefore, God doesn't have a perfect record. As a matter of fact I think God is his creation. (Instead of the word conscience I meant to put consciousness) We are one with God, God is all around us. But he, she, or they are not bound to anything except their nature. This is why things go wrong.

RedDragon,

If you are a believer of the creation of man in the book of Genesis, you may understand why Christianity believed that the world was tainted with sin--a corrupted world. This is why bad things happen. On the other hand, things that happened around us would not make God imperfect.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Studying a book cannot prove that its recorded events and message are authentic, however. If that is so, I could say that the works of Arthur Conan Doyle proves the existence and work of Sherlock Holmes.

Hi Buddhist,

That is the beauty of biblical interpretation. Research and studying is already a practice to validate and justify things for historical events. There are discoveries that we can look at like archaeology, geography, customs and traditions, and places that has been narrated in the Bible. Just like what you did in finding the Greek and Hebrew text is already a part of research and study.

This might interest you.

I read it already. If we would look at the authenticity and validity of the source of information, this is very far from the depth of chronological set up of the Bible starting from the book of Genesis, the Father God who is the Creator, and the prophecies--down to the life of Jesus Christ including the Revelation. Secondly, the witness and testimony of Jesus’ disciples/Apostles in the gospels, and the letters. The ancient record of Jesus in India has to be compared with the account that is in the Bible to prove their consistency and authenticity.

If this claim is true by some people who believed about Christ’s lost years, what difference would it make from John 14:6, the crucifixion, and all Christ’s teachings?

It seems you are using the Old Testament as your authority. How did you judge the Old Testament to be more authoritative, over the writings that speak of Jesus in India, or any other text?

My answer to this is the same as above. I used the Old Testament as my evidence because of the fulfillment of the prophecy starting from Jesus Christ’s birth, His coming, mission, and the crucifixion. No mention about the lost years in India. I just remembered that there is also a belief claimed that Jesus traveled in Central America and He preached there. This is also one of the inconsistencies that we can see if we dig the truth with the Bible.

Isn't the idea that your "God is eternal" an assumption?

If the problem that you cited is more of translation by men, the Greek text of the word “eternal” does not change. Isn’t it? Now, if you believe that its meaning is agelong with undefined end, but not eternal as eternal life, what should be the authority that will defined the word “aeon” for you? Do you have a reference like interlinear? May I request to see it?

My evaluation is based on etymology, lexiography, and context involved in its historical use. Aeon = eon; an eon is extremely long, of an unperceivable length (aka undefined end), but not infinite.

May I request for a reference or the source?

Thanks

 

[prometheus11]

Prometheus,

I remembered the life of Job in the Bible. From richest to rags, he experienced it. You may considered checking out with his story. God is still in control of everything despite of all things that the corrupted world affected humanity.

Another thing is just like my (male) friend who discovered he has cancer since last quarter of year 2015. The cancer spread up to his lungs already before they found out. Since then he is taking chemotheraphy until now. He is a church staff, an active song leader in a church. Their family line has a history of cancer, her sister was already passed away a long time ago due to brain cancer. My friend has two kids, still studying in elementary school. Her wife resigned from her stable job to take care my friend. They're both jobless. They take their faith and depends on the grace of God. How about that? How about a Christian who is living without arms/legs or without limb? Yet they praised God; seek to continue to walk in righteousness and giving a bold testimony with other people.

What could we do if we are only human? He could do so many things that we want to happen in our world, but His will is still the right thing to do.

Thanks

Why won't you acknowledge my questions and answer them?

God didn't have to allow baby cancer and mass murderers just like he doesn't allow humans to fly by flapping their wings. Free will would still be free will.

Humans being humans has nothing to do with anything. We're talking about if God is powerful enough to get the result he wants with free will without baby cancer. Either he smart enough to figure that out or he isn't. Either he's powerful enough to do it or he isn't. If God had no choice, But he had to do it that way, then he's following some code and has no free will and isn't much of a God.