How do Pagans resurrect the old?

[The Kilted Heathen]

I don't understand why you think contemporary Paganism would at all require that. Where did you get that impression? That is so strange to me. I haven't met or spoken with a Pagan who is a modern science denialist.

Wait, you don't bleed an afflicted to balance their fragile humors?

 

[Quintessence]

Wait, you don't bleed an afflicted to balance their fragile humors?

Nah. The Way of the Four is fascinating and a major part of my path, but I'm not a medical doctor (and even if I was, I wouldn't use humorism in that fashion).

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't understand why you think contemporary Paganism would at all require that. Where did you get that impression? That is so strange to me. I haven't met or spoken with a Pagan who is a modern science denialist. The gods still govern (or are) that stuff as much as they did before.

Sorry, I apologize for being unclear. I am really referring to myself and I am just throwing out words that fit sometimes, bear with me bear with me please.

I am happy that pagans don't toss out modern science and I know first hand they would never do such a thing as a whole.

The narrative you tell about the development of physics is also really strange to me. I don't understand it either.

I am referencing the ancient to modern ways mankind has attempted to related and conceive of his environment and understand its nature. Before the understanding of fire as rapid oxidation we associated it with animistic forces that had various effects or influences. Now we know otherwise.

Why do you think these deities are limited to this conceptualization you have of them? I'm not seeing it. Furthermore, these natural cycles are still relevant today. Very, very relevant. That many fail to understand that is symptomatic of moderner's disconnection with nature (aka, the gods). And of their ignorance.

Maybe it is just me . Like I said before I don't always use logic for all of my opinions. Sometimes I am emotional and hold unreasonable attitudes towards something because of stereotypes or misunderstandings. I have never had the chance to speak to pagans face to face, they are the only major religious group I have never conversed with in real life besides Jains and Bahai'ist.

That's fine. But then I have to wonder, why bother asking the questions if you don't care?

I never said I don't care. I just can't shake an attitude I have towards pagans, I honestly used to hold lower opinions of Pagans than I do fundamentalist Muslims or Christians. I threw them in the same group as New Age spiritualists and religious con-artists.

 

[Quintessence]

I am referencing the ancient to modern ways mankind has attempted to related and conceive of his environment and understand its nature. Before the understanding of fire as rapid oxidation we associated it with animistic forces that had various effects or influences. Now we know otherwise.

I'd say that some believe that humans know otherwise because many have decided to place a stronger value on certain things over other things. There are many stories to tell about the ways of things. All of them get at something of interest.

There was a comment I was making to some of what you've been saying that I ended up deleting before I posted it, but perhaps it's worth bringing up. When I was talking about the importance of how we approach mythology, a particular approach that became popularized by certain branches of Christianity came to mind, and that's mythological literalism. It has little place in Paganisms, or really any religion, as it replaces the depth of mythology with superficiality. I guess what I'm saying here is that the stories were not intended as a sort of pre-science. That's not the point of them. They express relationships, values, and meaning - all of which is as relevant now as it was in the past. I hold to the Way of the Four knowing full because of its mythological value, not because I literally believe that the Four are the roots of all things. Literalism isn't the bloody point, and I wish Christians had never come up with such a foolish way of approaching mythology and that my people stopped paying so much attention to it.

I never said I don't care. I just can't shake an attitude I have towards pagans, I honestly used to hold lower opinions of Pagans than I do fundamentalist Muslims or Christians. I threw them in the same group as New Age spiritualists and religious con-artists.

Not sure how to take that, but there are going to be folks you don't like or disagree with in any group. More folks will be in that dislike basket if you are a critical sort of person that likes to find the faults in everything or are eager to pass judgement on others. I like to remember that our judgements are more reflections of us than the other. It tells us about our values. You mentioned earlier you liked the simplicity of monotheism? Yeah, I can see that. Polytheistic religions and contemporary Paganism are definitely not for you if you want to keep it simple. There's little hand holding on these paths, and a lot of work involved, and a lot of practice and thinking. I'd say the same is true of New Age spiritualities, actually, even as I tend to have some... contentions with them.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I'd say the same is true of New Age spiritualities, actually, even as I tend to have some... contentions with them.

Eh, my experience with "New Age" has been that it's sickeningly simple. Fine - and important - details are glossed over, and more complicated notions are made simple so that they're easier to grasp.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not sure where your problems and misunderstandings with paganism stem from. The point isn't to recreate a bygone era. I surely don't. But the point is to continue the spirit and particular ethos of an indigenous tradition that has been interrupted and/or destroyed. It's not for historical reenactment purposes. For example, Zeus rules as the King of the Olympians but I'm not a monarchist (I'm an anarcho-communist, to be precise). Of course, that is just a metaphor for Zeus' supreme power and function; His role.

Speaking for my religion personally, I'm not sure how you can claim that the traditions of the ancient Hellenes are "outdated" since they're the foundation of what we call Western civilization. Again, the point isn't to recreate it, but to adapt it to the modern world, carry its spirit forward.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Maybe I am just being a drama queen but I just lack any encouragement to understand or appreciate paganism anymore. Maybe it is the fact I am a minimalist and favor monotheism in religious discourse. I admit I have become a less elaborate person as I have grown older.

That's fine. But then I have to wonder, why bother asking the questions if you don't care?

Yeah, really.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Zeus rules as the King of the Olympians but I'm not a monarchist (I'm an anarcho-communist, to be precise). Of course, that is just a metaphor for Zeus' supreme power and function; His role.

Lol! I always got the impression from the stories that the council on Mt. Olympus was rather much an anarchy...

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm not sure where your problems and misunderstandings with paganism stem from. The point isn't to recreate a bygone era. I surely don't. But the point is to continue the spirit and particular ethos of an indigenous tradition that has been interrupted and/or destroyed. It's not for historical reenactment purposes. For example, Zeus rules as the King of the Olympians but I'm not a monarchist (I'm an anarcho-communist, to be precise). Of course, that is just a metaphor for Zeus' supreme power and function; His role.

I keep throwing around words like libertarian but what the hell, I guess I should come out the closet. I am an anarcho-capitalist! At least you made it as far to anarchy! I may disagree with that big "C-word" but you are at least the "A-word."

Speaking for my religion personally, I'm not sure how you can claim that the traditions of the ancient Hellenes are "outdated" since they're the foundation of what we call Western civilization. Again, the point isn't to recreate it, but to adapt it to the modern world, carry its spirit forward.

I understand how these old cultic practices have influenced the west. You can never stop influences from spreading, this is just the result of people picking favorites or preserving traditions.

I think my answer is already given, I am gonna think more about it and finish studying Celtic religion. I really have never touched the stuff in my entire life

 

[Toten]

We have such a rich and in-depth folklore. By we I mean European descendants, Westerners. Nearly all cultures in Europe; Dacian, Latin, Greek, Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Baltic, etc. all have so much history and philosophy behind them, which we today can observe and study. Not just in the typical biased "A guide to X muthology" you find at the bookstore but also translations, folklore, historical texts, observable phenomena, and the drawing of theories and likelihoods. It takes time and effort in learning the ancient European worldview and religion, but it is very possible.

 

[Aštra’el]

Gods may evolve through the people and cultures who embrace them. I have no issue with taking something from ancient times and embracing it today in a way that complements my own Weltanschauung and true Will.

 

[AphulKore]

You mean like the seemingly heat-stroke induced ramblings of bronze-age illiterate goat-herders? Two can play this game.


Crippled? I can't speak for the others, but if you live anywhere in the western world, a good 2/3rds of our culture is taken directly from Germanic pagans. If anything, society resembles pre-Christianized Norse culture more now than it has since the heyday of the Norse. They were extremely cosmopolitan, didn't particularly care who you ****ed or why so long as it was consensual(they in fact have some of the earliest recorded instances of women being compensated for rape rather than their husband or father being compensated), so on and so forth.


Not all of us, not even a majority of us, do that. Not to mention that was a perfectly acceptable thing for pagans to do back in the day. Rome collected gods with the same vigour they collected territories.


I could make the exact same argument sourcing the Bible. There are no mentions of elected leaders or the like, just the divine right of the hereditary ruling class.

Thank you for making this point. I am a Heathen and was about to make this but read yours.

And to add onto this: Its my heritage. My ancestors. I respect them. They got me to where I am today. If it were not for my grandparents, my mom, dad, and I would not be here. They told them to bring me to the USA. My ancestors are so important to me and that means this religion is.