How do we know god is good, and satan is evil?

[bobdole0420]

Im new and i follow no religion, but i do like a good debate without prejudice. Because I'll state it now. No one truly knows if any of it is real or not. So to me there are no wrong or right or for that matter no DEFINITIVE answers at all on the religious discussings, pertaining to being real or not. So if you respond try to do so keeping in mind that is how i view the entire subject.

Now to my question/thought... How do we know God is good and satan is evil? I was thinking what if god was just like a rich and powerful man. Who enjoys the wealth and power and commands us to follow him or be sent to hell. I mean from a certain view point one could view god as pushy,judgmental, and not as forgiving as he says he is.

Now look at satan and think this guy lives in the bad part of town cause thats all he can afford. But instead of leaving his community for a cheaper nicer one. He stays cause he loves and wants his community to get better as a whole. He seems more forgiving and more accepting of any and all man, not just a select few.

We all know the church of jesus christ in any religion is the wealthiest and is the only corporation that is untaxed. So if they want only good for people, why not give more of it away for the greater good? And by more i mean damn near all of it. Why do they need it? To me, and not true in all cases. But money is power. So if god is so good and powerful and wise. Why does the people that serve and spread his word, need all that money for?

I read a post on a satanic church in Minneapolis that offered people of any ethnicity or background complimentary escorts. If any person has or feels unsafe to walk from home to work or grocery store. In order to provide them with a strong yet subtle in appearance form of protection if anything bad was to come their way. So in short they offer free body guards to people, not that they will need it but heaven forbid someone means to do harm for any or no reason. Once again where are other religions on this. (Yes i do know satanic church's are not about worshipping evil amongst other things) but where are the Christian's or Catholic's free body guards? (Sorry not singling those two religions out. But obviously two of the biggest religions. But that statement goes for any religion ).


So is god evil,rich,and powerful.
Or is satan good,poor,and accepting.

Also note: I would rather your opinions and not just pointed to a verse or have a bible verse quoted as your only form of opinions. Not that they cant be insightful, but that book to me has been written and re-written to serve a purpose of tailoring to the rich and ever untaxed church. Mainly to make a dollar. I am happy it gives faith and direction and meaning to peoples lives. And thats a great thing and should continue. I feel as though i can see past its words and into why it was really written.....POWER

 

[Quintessence]

Those who tell that particular story know that God is good and Satan is evil because that is how the plot of the story goes. If they change the plot, it becomes a different story - and not their story. As it is their story, they get to tell it and decide how it goes. The first tellers of the tale came a long time ago, and the tradition has continued since. Various storytellers have changed the tale here and there. Different sects emerge sometimes when disagreements about the story get strong enough and there can be no reconciling them.

The question of what inspired the story is a bit more difficult to answer. The stories are so old, that the answer to this is probably lost to history. We can speculate, though as dualistic stories are not of my tradition, I'll leave that exercise to others. I do not like "good versus evil" stories. I think they are told far too often in my culture, and I think the lessons they teach are... problematic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... that book to me has been written and re-written to serve a purpose of tailoring to the rich and ever untaxed church.

<yawn>

some ignorant claims are just silly​

</yawn>

 

[bobdole0420]

Those who tell that particular story know that God is good and Satan is evil because that is how the plot of the story goes. If they change the plot, it becomes a different story - and not their story. As it is their story, they get to tell it and decide how it goes. The first tellers of the tale came a long time ago, and the tradition has continued since. Various storytellers have changed the tale here and there. Different sects emerge sometimes when disagreements about the story get strong enough and there can be no reconciling them.

The question of what inspired the story is a bit more difficult to answer. The stories are so old, that the answer to this is probably lost to history. We can speculate, though as dualistic stories are not of my tradition, I'll leave that exercise to others. I do not like "good versus evil" stories. I think they are told far too often in my culture, and I think the lessons they teach are... problematic.

Very good point on how its bad the stories of good versus evil being problematic. And that does have me wanting to point out. That even though I pretty much did exactly that. And play a good versus evil card in my question/thought. I would like to say that my whole point. Was could we be looking at it from the wrong angle? Do we have it wrong?
Also thank you for wording it better than i could have. About how it is just a story.

 

[bobdole0420]

<yawn>

some ignorant claims are just silly​

If you have valid points as to how my claims are ignorant or how silly they are. Please share.
The church is the wealthiest untaxed corporation in the world. That is fact not made up in my head. And why change a story every so often? Yes translation can get off point. But shouldn't there be basically only one version of the story, for each religion? Im not trying to bring a bad light to religions or to any followers of any religion. Just wondering what if.

 

[BSM1]

"Good" and "evil" are man-made concepts, so flip a coin.

 

[Tarheeler]

How do we know God is good and satan is evil?

Is there any reason in particular that you chose the dichotomy found in Christianity to discuss? What happens if you remove Satan as an independent entity that does anything other than what he is commanded to do?

 

[Kemosloby]

Im new and i follow no religion, but i do like a good debate without prejudice. Because I'll state it now. No one truly knows if any of it is real or not. So to me there are no wrong or right or for that matter no DEFINITIVE answers at all on the religious discussings, pertaining to being real or not. So if you respond try to do so keeping in mind that is how i view the entire subject.

Now to my question/thought... How do we know God is good and satan is evil? I was thinking what if god was just like a rich and powerful man. Who enjoys the wealth and power and commands us to follow him or be sent to hell. I mean from a certain view point one could view god as pushy,judgmental, and not as forgiving as he says he is.

Now look at satan and think this guy lives in the bad part of town cause thats all he can afford. But instead of leaving his community for a cheaper nicer one. He stays cause he loves and wants his community to get better as a whole. He seems more forgiving and more accepting of any and all man, not just a select few.

We all know the church of jesus christ in any religion is the wealthiest and is the only corporation that is untaxed. So if they want only good for people, why not give more of it away for the greater good? And by more i mean damn near all of it. Why do they need it? To me, and not true in all cases. But money is power. So if god is so good and powerful and wise. Why does the people that serve and spread his word, need all that money for?

I read a post on a satanic church in Minneapolis that offered people of any ethnicity or background complimentary escorts. If any person has or feels unsafe to walk from home to work or grocery store. In order to provide them with a strong yet subtle in appearance form of protection if anything bad was to come their way. So in short they offer free body guards to people, not that they will need it but heaven forbid someone means to do harm for any or no reason. Once again where are other religions on this. (Yes i do know satanic church's are not about worshipping evil amongst other things) but where are the Christian's or Catholic's free body guards? (Sorry not singling those two religions out. But obviously two of the biggest religions. But that statement goes for any religion ).


So is god evil,rich,and powerful.
Or is satan good,poor,and accepting.

Also note: I would rather your opinions and not just pointed to a verse or have a bible verse quoted as your only form of opinions. Not that they cant be insightful, but that book to me has been written and re-written to serve a purpose of tailoring to the rich and ever untaxed church. Mainly to make a dollar. I am happy it gives faith and direction and meaning to peoples lives. And thats a great thing and should continue. I feel as though i can see past its words and into why it was really written.....POWER

Why wouldn't the church of Satan be tax exempt?

 

[LuisDantas]

If you go by the actual scriptures, God is often clearly criminal, literally genocidal even.

There is a reason why Christian churches are generally the more enlightened the less obsessed with the Bible they are.

"Good" and "Evil" are not entirely arbitrary concepts, but they are not really learned in any useful way from scripture alone.

 

[Quintessence]

Was could we be looking at it from the wrong angle? Do we have it wrong?

I don't approach mythic narrative from a "right vs wrong" angle. I think that's missing the point. Mythic narrative - of which the Abrahamic stories of the Bible are included - serves to convey important life lessons or wisdom teachings. To me the question to ask is "does this story articulate values that I find important or worthy?" Some will answer that question yes, some will answer that question no - those differences in values help create the wonderful cultural diversity we have on this world. I don't think of a different set of values being a "wrong angle" as much as I think of it as simply being different.

Of course, sometimes the stories are just for fun. It's not a weighty question of values or life lessons or things like that. In terms of entertainment value, I don't might dualistic narratives. Sometimes I want something mind-numblingly simple like "good versus evil" when my brain is half asleep. Though in terms of mythic narrative - a story that conveys wisdom teachings - I question the wisdom of "us versus them" mentalities. It has its place at certain times, but I much prefer the value of pluralism that honors diversity instead of trying to paint those who are different as "the enemy."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The church is the wealthiest untaxed corporation in the world. That is fact not made up in my head. [reformatted - JS]

No, but what is "made up in your head" is the implied and laughable syllogism ...

Given:

"The [Catholic] church is the wealthiest untaxed corporation in the world."

Therefore:

... [the Bible] to me has been written and re-written to serve a purpose of tailoring to the rich and ever untaxed church.

At best this is a remarkably sloppy instance of a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. As for the claim itself, please document a single instance of redaction "to serve a purpose of tailoring to the rich and ever untaxed church."

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

The question you need to ask yourself is that is why would god allow people to suffer?

 

[BSM1]

The question you need to ask yourself is that is why would god allow people to suffer?

Again, 'suffering' is relative and subjective. Also a man-made concept.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Again, 'suffering' is relative and subjective. Also a man-made concept.

Ain't god all powerful that the christians claim?

 

[BSM1]

Ain't god all powerful that the christians claim?

"God", being all things, has to be neutral by It's very nature. Any time you endeavor to place human values, attributes, or qualities on this Deity, than you are no longer talking about a deity.

 

[Ben Avraham]

How do we know God is Good and Satan is Evil?

God is Spirit and Satan does not exist. Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The question you need to ask yourself is that is why would god allow people to suffer?

God has absolutely nothing to do with the sufferings of people. Their suffering are caused by themselves or others related or not with themselves. God created man perfect but men have caused themselves a lot of troubles through the law of cause & effect if you read Ecclesiastes 7:29.

 

[Ben Avraham]

If you go by the actual scriptures, God is often clearly criminal, literally genocidal even. There is a reason why Christian churches are generally the more enlightened the less obsessed with the Bible they are. "Good" and "Evil" are not entirely arbitrary concepts, but they are not really learned in any useful way from scripture alone.

HaShem has absolutely nothing to do with the atrocities committed by man or claimed that what they did was commanded by God or in His name. This false assumption that HaShem is criminal or genocidal comes as a result of ignorance from hear-say or poor understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

God is Spirit and Satan does not exist. Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.

So god is real and Lucifer is not?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

God has absolutely nothing to do with the sufferings of people. Their suffering are caused by themselves or others related or not with themselves. God created man perfect but men have caused themselves a lot of troubles through the law of cause & effect if you read Ecclesiastes 7:29.

And that is the interesting part. A lot of christians rather blame Lucifer for their problems and supposedly "The evil Lucifer has done".