How do you Define God????

[Muslim-UK]

1. We are living in a fallen world. He is perfect, but the things we see are a result of Adam, Satan, Eve's disobedience. We are all vulnerable to imperfection, it can happen to anybody, and this happens by natural process, god is not involved like in surah 3:6.

So you are telling me God is not involved in any way when a child is fashioned in the womb? So God does not ordain and decree everything in Christianity? Is Satan, who is a creation of God, able to have more power than God?

If Adam and Eve pbut were responsible for a fallen World, then the Prophets would be telling their people so. Why is there no big deal made in the Torah, or by Jesus pbuh?

2. Well I guess we agree on environmental, but surah 3:6 doesn't agree with us.

Science proves the environment can affect a baby's health, similarly if a Mother has poor health, smokes etc, this too can cause problems. Man has free will to make the environment beneficial for people, or to poison it. Those babies will be perfect in Heaven, and as I said before, the disability is a test for the parents and could be their ticket to Heaven.

3. Satan is responsible for misleading the earth with sin like pollution, murder, war, pornography, he influences the big guns.

All these things come from former Christian majority Countries.

4. Again Jesus fulfilled scripture for example when he spoke to the pharisees psalm 82 was in play or many of the psalms are in play. BTW Jesus did not break the Sabbath, the Pharisees were basically apostates, so why would you believe them?

Honour your parents. He ignored his own Mother and called her 'Woman' at the wedding.

Prayer
- they saw Jesus praying
- then they asked lord teach "us" to pray
- when "you" pray, pray like ...

To prove this is so, please post the prayer Jesus pbuh recited when he fell on his face and prayed all night in the garden of Getsemane, when he was so worried, he sweated blood.

The problem with the illustration of the house, is that we come into a world with terrible problems, the life here on earth today is not pretty, and as individuals have no control over it. What does make sense is god putting us in a perfect world with perfect people and a great plan for us. But as I said Adam ruined things for us, and chose death. In the bible, the paradise earth will come about again.

So do you believe you are a better person than Adam and Eve pbut? If you were in the garden of Eden, you would be better?
Or are you saying God did a poor job in creating Adam and eve, and giving them free will?

 

[BilliardsBall]

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. That defines you. According to that religion God created Hell knowing someone, no matter how foolish, would go there. How does God define Himself?

Blame is a petty thing. God should be at a Higher Level above such petty things. It doesn't matter how foolish the kid is, teach him to be smart no matter how long it takes.

There are limits. Parents whose children kill them have little left to teach and cannot, indeed, teach them any longer.

We killed Jesus Christ on the cross with our sin.

 

[Muslim-UK]

There are limits. Parents whose children kill them have little left to teach and cannot, indeed, teach them any longer.

We killed Jesus Christ on the cross with our sin.

Jesus pbuh did not die on the cross. Crucifixion, resurrection, Son of God and Trinity are all made up to justify a Roman Religion.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Obviously Jesus apostles were testifying about Jesus resurrection. Let's go with peter who saw Jesus after the resurrection John 21:15
2 Peter 3:15 look what Peter the one who witnessed Jesus resurrection says about Paul
2 Peter 2:21-24 Peter again affirms Jesus death
1 John 2:2 the apostle John testifies of Jesus sacrifice
John 21:20-21 the apostle John was present at the resurrection

Why did the Church dispute over the following books: Revelations, Hebrews, Philemon, and the Catholic Epistles (I and II Peter, I and II and III John, and Jude) ?

John 21:20-21 Did the Jewish Disciple John write it?

 

[Kenny]

Here the spouter of lies is preaching his own Gospel.

WOA THERE HORSEE! You haven't even proven he lied.

He claims Jesus' pbuh death and resurrection is written in the Scripture, where can we find it?

In scripture... in Gospels... by the words of Jesus (pbuh) and the OT.

Paul is trying hard to convince the audience, his is the correct Gospel, and if they don't accept then they're still in sin.

No... it started with "I want to remind you" and not "I'm trying to convince you"

Why were followers of Jesus pbuh travelling the lands and preaching a different Gospel?

You haven't even established it was a different gospel. Actually, if you read the scriptures correctly, Paul went to Jerusalem to speak to those in authority (apostles) to make sure he WASN'T giving a different gospel.. He found out he was doing just fine

Where were they getting their information of no crucifixion from?

Where are you getting the information that "no crucifixion" was even an issue? Peter preached it, John preached it, Phillip preached it, Stephen preached it and most importantly of all...

500 WITNESSED IT!!!!! not to mention they couldn't find the body and the grave was empty.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus pbuh did not die on the cross. Crucifixion, resurrection, Son of God and Trinity are all made up to justify a Roman Religion.

No... it is a matter of recorded history

 

[Muslim-UK]

WOA THERE HORSEE! You haven't even proven he lied.

Heb 8:9?

In scripture... in Gospels... by the words of Jesus (pbuh) and the OT.

What written Gospels existed when that letter was written?
Where in the OT does it mention death and resurrection of Jesus pbuh after 3 days as Paul states?

No... it started with "I want to remind you" and not "I'm trying to convince you"

You haven't even established it was a different gospel. Actually, if you read the scriptures correctly, Paul went to Jerusalem to speak to those in authority (apostles) to make sure he WASN'T giving a different gospel.. He found out he was doing just fine

He was preaching his Gospel, and we'll see if it was the same as the Disciples in due course.

Where are you getting the information that "no crucifixion" was even an issue? Peter preached it, John preached it, Phillip preached it, Stephen preached it and most importantly of all...

See post 144 above. Where is Peter and Phillip preaching this; in the Book of Acts?

500 WITNESSED IT!!!!! not to mention they couldn't find the body and the grave was empty.

This equates to Tens of Thousands of people within a few years. Let's see if the evidence supports this.

 

[Muslim-UK]

No... it is a matter of recorded history

Usually if someone says, so and so was taken to the cross to be crucified, save a miracle, (which secular Historians do not believe in), Historians accept that person must have been crucified.

You say 500 people saw him after he rose, but you won't find any secular Historians confirm it happened.

So one the one hand, at the crucifixion all his disciples fled, a darkness fell over the land, a Earthquake shook the ground, leaving the people in fear, the day of the crucifixion is disputed, the time on the cross, the witnesses, the last words said etc, yet Historians accept it because, well if he was on the cross, then yes he must have died.

On the other hand, despite hundreds of witnesses, no one in Secular circles accepts the Resurrection.

Who exactly witnessed the crucifixion?

 

[Kenny]

Heb 8:9?

????

9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

Quoting a good verse didn't help any

What written Gospels existed when that letter was written?

Which letter?

Where in the OT does it mention death and resurrection of Jesus pbuh after 3 days as Paul states?

you mean the one that Jesus (pbuh) spoke about again and again?

Death and burial ... Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Psalms 88. and so many more
resurrection... Gen 3:15, Ps 16 and so many more in types and shadows

He was preaching his Gospel, and we'll see if it was the same as the Disciples in due course.

See post 144 above. Where is Peter and Phillip preaching this; in the Book of Acts?

Acts 2, Acts 8

This equates to Tens of Thousands of people within a few years. Let's see if the evidence supports this.

You sure are digging a hole.

 

[Kenny]

Usually if someone says, so and so was taken to the cross to be crucified, save a miracle, (which secular Historians do not believe in), Historians accept that person must have been crucified.

You say 500 people saw him after he rose, but you won't find any secular Historians confirm it happened.

So one the one hand, at the crucifixion all his disciples fled, a darkness fell over the land, a Earthquake shook the ground, leaving the people in fear, the day of the crucifixion is disputed, the time on the cross, the witnesses, the last words said etc, yet Historians accept it because, well if he was on the cross, then yes he must have died.

On the other hand, despite hundreds of witnesses, no one in Secular circles accepts the Resurrection.

Who exactly witnessed the crucifixion?

You won't find any historians saying that it wasn't Jesus (pbuh) who died on a cross nor that Jesus didn't die on the cross as you declare yet that is what you believe. However, we DO know that the message spread across the known world.

But the soldiers who cast dice for his clothing (as prophesied) believed he was crucified. The soldiers that reported Herod belied he was crucified. The soldiers that pierced his side believed. The people who pulled him off the cross and wrapped his body and buried him believed. The soldiers who fell like dead when the angels came believed etc etc etc.

Nor will you find any secular historians who believe that Mohammad was a prophet (mghmohs).

 

[Bird123]

Prisons are full of people that we are still trying to teach them to be smart. Higher Level has nothing to do with it.

How are prisons teaching? They just lock you away.

 

[Bird123]

are you a theist or atheist?

neither

 

[Bird123]

you say fix the kids, but what if they keep refusing and want to do their own thing, which jeopardizes humanity?

Parents need to out think their children. Humanity will protect themselves in the meantime.

 

[Bird123]

(Isa 65:17) “Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Lets say God sends folks to hell, or punishes the wicked.

In heaven, it'd be like nobody would remember any of this. Like waking from a dream and everything that happen in the dream fades away with the realization nothing that occurred had any consequence.

Pain, war, suffering were not real, not permanent, not remembered. All washed away and replaced with contentment, joy at your life in heaven.

Like a scary ride at Disneyland, no real threat to your safety or well being every really existed.

Would that make it different? Would hell be ok if it was all just basically a scary illusion?

Even if you're not ok with it, you ain't going to remember any of it. Just sitting around in Heaven certain that this peace and joy was all that you had ever experienced.

Are actions really justified if no one remembers?

This reminds me of a poem by Kabir:

I said to the wanting-creature inside me:
What is this river you want to cross?
There are no travelers on the river-road, and no road.
Do you see anyone moving about on that bank, or nesting?

There is no river at all, and no boat, and no boatman.
There is no tow rope either, and no one to pull it.
There is no ground, no sky, no time, no bank, no ford!

And there is no body, and no mind!
Do you believe there is some place that will make the
soul less thirsty?
In that great absence you will find nothing.

Be strong then, and enter into your own body;
there you have a solid place for your feet.
Think about it carefully!
Don't go off somewhere else!

Kabir says this: just throw away all thoughts of
imaginary things,
and stand firm in that which you are.

Kabir

This reminds me of a poem by Kabir:

I said to the wanting-creature inside me:
What is this river you want to cross?
There are no travelers on the river-road, and no road.
Do you see anyone moving about on that bank, or nesting?

There is no river at all, and no boat, and no boatman.
There is no tow rope either, and no one to pull it.
There is no ground, no sky, no time, no bank, no ford!

And there is no body, and no mind!
Do you believe there is some place that will make the
soul less thirsty?
In that great absence you will find nothing.

Be strong then, and enter into your own body;
there you have a solid place for your feet.
Think about it carefully!
Don't go off somewhere else!

Kabir says this: just throw away all thoughts of
imaginary things,
and stand firm in that which you are.

Kabir

As I see it, we are all Spiritual Beings trapped in a physical body. Discovery should not have limits unless we place those limits upon ourselves. On the other hand, if one does place limits on themselves, what will one miss? I don't think we are supposed to miss anything.

 

[Bird123]

There are limits. Parents whose children kill them have little left to teach and cannot, indeed, teach them any longer.

We killed Jesus Christ on the cross with our sin.

As I see it. Death is no more than a Change. The lessons will never go away until the lessons are learned. We are all Eternal.

 

[Muslim-UK]

9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

Paul quoted Jeremiah 31:32

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:"

A husband remains loyal as referenced in other places of Jeremiah, yet Paul is talking divorce by altering the text.

you mean the one that Jesus (pbuh) spoke about again and again?

Death and burial ... Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Psalms 88. and so many more
resurrection... Gen 3:15, Ps 16 and so many more in types and shadows

There's nothing about a death on the cross, much less a resurrection from death 3 days later.

Acts 2, Acts 8

Written by Luke, the Disciple of Paul.

You won't find any historians saying that it wasn't Jesus (pbuh) who died on a cross nor that Jesus didn't die on the cross as you declare yet that is what you believe. However, we DO know that the message spread across the known world.

None of the Historians were at the scene, they are only going on the NT, and hearsay.

 

[Kenny]

How are prisons teaching? They just lock you away.

Oh no... there are classes for GED and a host of other classes for self improvement and instruction... but people still choose to go back to prison.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Learning from bad choices is part of the system. More is often learned through mistakes than any other way. Can anyone really get good without mistakes along the way? I don't see it.

As I see it, sin is part of the learning process and everything could not be learned in one mere lifetime so there are multiple lifetimes. I don't see anything that needs forgiving since we probably all have made the bad choice somewhere in the past.

I agree with most of that. But often people do not forgive themselves for their own mistakes.
They often do not forgive others, and become resentful. This is often justifiable when the perpetrator
'apologizes' for his error, and then continues to make others suffer by repeating the error.
Forgiveness is part of the process of indicating that genuine learning has taken place.

A killer may kill out of self-defense, but then becomes a mass murderer in order to try and justify that
initial act as being acceptable practice. I have seen this in examining the apartheid racists and
how they justified oppressing and killing black people in order to even try and come to terms
with race wars from previous generations.

 

[Nakosis]

Are actions really justified if no one remembers?

They wouldn't have to be justified.

If there's no one to judge you, and who's going to judge God, you can do anything you want.

Flood the world, kill everyone. Bring them all back. Cause them to not remember any prior event, no harm has been done.

How can you be harmed by something you have no knowledge of? You feel harmed because of your thoughts about it, but you wouldn't have them to feel harmed by.

 

[Kenny]

Paul quoted Jeremiah 31:32

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:"
A husband remains loyal as referenced in other places of Jeremiah, yet Paul is talking divorce by altering the text.

That's a muslim interpretation which obviously you don't want it to say something else.

There's nothing about a death on the cross, much less a resurrection from death 3 days later.

Then you didn't read it.

Written by Luke, the Disciple of Paul.

Who also spoke to the Apostles.

None of the Historians were at the scene, they are only going on the NT, and hearsay.

Luke gave the historical account besides being a doctor and confirmed by it by speaking to many first hand witnesses. Like what they do at a crime scene. Those who take notes didn't see it but they record the eye witness accounts.

None of the muslims who say "Jesus didn't die on the cross" were at the scene... it is fake news.