How do you detect "design"?

[Eli G]

The issue seems to be, that people want to “win” debates……rather than learning and having honest dialogues.

There is a club or sect here, that if you do not belong to it, you will be the target of any kind of attack, dishonest, cruel, fallacious... any kind of attack from the finest to the lowest that you can think of.

It's no longer about the truth, but about who defeats whom. That is the direct result of believing that humans are animals with no purpose other than to survive and regenerate.

 

[leroy]

Not directly related.
But if a computer(designed) runs a QR program (designed) with QR code also designed, how does that relate to the universe as such. For the uiverse what is the computer, the program and the code?

Yes QR and computers and designed………..obviously

What I am saying is that the data that you insert in a QR generator could be design or non-designed (random)

The test that I proposed tells you if it is designed…………………………you can apply the same test to life or the universe

In other words and answering to your question……………in this analogy the data that you insert in the QR would be analogous to the values of the universe…………..a priori we don’t know if any of them is designed or not…………………but we can apply the test

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is a club or sect here, that if you do not belong to it, you will be the target of any kind of attack, dishonest, cruel, fallacious... any kind of attack from the finest to the lowest that you can think of.

It's no longer about the truth, but about who defeats whom. That is the direct result of believing that humans are animals with no purpose other than to survive and regenerate.

Well, you might have me on ignore.
But that is not what all non-theists believe.

 

[leroy]

There is a club or sect here, that if you do not belong to it, you will be the target of any kind of attack, dishonest, cruel, fallacious... any kind of attack from the finest to the lowest that you can think of.

It's no longer about the truth, but about who defeats whom. That is the direct result of believing that humans are animals with no purpose other than to survive and regenerate.

Yes, I find it impressing that they support each other, even when one of them is clearly wrong………..it´s like a cult

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes QR and computers and designed………..obviously

What I am saying is that the data that you insert in a QR generator could be design or non-designed (random)

The test that I proposed tells you if it is designed…………………………you can apply the same test to life or the universe

In other words and answering to your question……………in this analogy the data that you insert in the QR would be analogous to the values of the universe…………..a priori we don’t know if any of them is designed or not…………………but we can apply the test

What are those?
What is the computer for the universe and what is the program for th universe?

 

[Eli G]

Yes, I find it impressing that they support each other, even when one of them is clearly wrong………..it´s like a cult

And apparently that cult resides in Australia. How scary!!!

 

[leroy]

Even if the QR doesn't open a website, it was still obviously and demonstrably designed. As already pointed out.

(Strawman-----------)

I am not talking about the QR itself I am talking about the data (letters, numbers etc,) that you would insert in the QR generator.

This data could be designed or non-designed………….(you or a monkey could just type random letters from the keyboard and create a QR from those random letters)

So yes the QR itself is designed, but the data may or may not be designed……………….if you apply the test (if it opens a website) then it would be designed.

 

[leroy]

And apparently that cult resides in Australia. How scary!!!

more info.............I didnt undderstand the reference jeje

 

[Eli G]

more info.............I didnt undderstand the reference jeje

No, no, no ... I am in danger already

 

[leroy]

What are those?
What is the computer for the universe and what is the program for th universe?

sorry I do not understand your question

 

[Eli G]

I think they are asking about what program the Universe works on.

The program is the natural laws that were recorded at the beginning, such as the information that is transmitted in DNA, like this.

The programmer was the Creator of the Universe, a very good one.

 

[SkepticThinker]

(Strawman-----------)

There is no straw man here and I am now wholly convinced that you don't know what a straw man actually is.

What I've done here is revealed the problem with your argument and with your methodology. You seem to think that's called a straw man, for some reason.

I am not talking about the QR itself I am talking about the data (letters, numbers etc,) that you would insert in the QR generator.

This data could be designed or non-designed………….(you or a monkey could just type random letters from the keyboard and create a QR from those random letters)

So yes the QR itself is designed, but the data may or may not be designed……………….if you apply the test (if it opens a website) then it would be designed.

You are arguing an irrelevancy. The QR code is designed right from the start. Whether it opens a website or does nothing at all, is irrelevant. As I've already pointed out to you and provided the example of the QR code that I designed that didn't work. The fact that my QR code didn't take me to the website I'd designed it to, doesn't mean the QR code is suddenly not designed.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And apparently that cult resides in Australia. How scary!!!

I live in Canada.

 

[Eli G]

Poor victim.

 

[McBell]

What are those?
What is the computer for the universe and what is the program for th universe?

I suspect they are suffering the affliction mentioned in post #686

 

[Pogo]

If any of those QR opens a website, a menu, a video, a document etc……….then it (the information that you inserted in the QR generator) would be design.

Fail 1, they don't open anything.

Why?

Because it would be SC

Why would it be SC?

Because a QR with the specific codes (lettesr numbers) that open a website would have these 3 characteristics

Fail 2 Again they don't open anything, I will grant that they are codes since they are QR codes and not just something that bears some resemblance to a QR Code. Which brings up the question of how do you know it is a code and what kind of code it is?

1 complex: many parts, (many letters, numbers etc.) and many possible combinations.

Fail 3 So does a box of rocks, how do you determine if you have enough? of what?

2 specified: they are organized in a pattern that can be independently known or identified (it opens a web site)

Fail 1 and 2 for the third time, I won't count it again. Again, they don't open anything external to themselves.

3 the laws of nature, don’t favor useful QRs that open websites over random noise.

Fail 4 Ah, another variation of I don't know but it doesn't look random to me so it must be designed.

In other words, there are many possible combinations of letters and numbers that can be inserted in a QR generator…………….but of all the possible combinations………only a very very small percentage would represent a correct combination of numbers letters etc... that would open a website.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Fail 5 Nothing you have said is useful in detecting design, or even relevant to the two images I posted. You got as far as thinking they are QR codes because someone told you they are, but beyond that all of your thoughts about them are just plain wrong so I guess it is that hard for you to understand that your idea of SC fails.

The world is safe from you for another night.

 

[shunyadragon]

Different subjects and not mutually exclusive.
Atheism pertains to beliefs
Agnosticism pertains to what can be known.

I do not believe the existence of non-existence of God can be known

No.

There is no atheist who will answer the question "do you believe a god exists" with "yes".
They wouldn't be an atheist if they did. By definition.

Your response is not clear, read my post again.

The analogy doesn't pertain to evidence and law.

It pertains to the different questions.
"do you believe x is guilty" vs "do you believe x is innocent".
Analogous to
"do you believe god exists" vs "do you believe god does not exist".

These are not the same questions.

Apparently are you agree with me?

 

[Eli G]

I think they are asking about what program the Universe works on.

The program is the natural laws that were recorded at the beginning, such as the information that is transmitted in DNA, like this.

The programmer was the Creator of the Universe, a very good one.

When a programmer thinks of an algorithm, he begins to carry out a long and tedious process of creating the program to use that algorithm. I myself have created some mathematical programs that have been very useful for other programs and algorithms... so although I am not an expert, I more or less have the idea of how this works.

The interesting thing is that the creation of planet Earth and the process in which it was adapted for life according to Genesis, was like a program that begins to be created in several steps. Every so often it was checked to see if it was working correctly, like when God declares each process "good." The creation of the program lasted 6 stages until the supreme work on earth was finished: human beings. Then it is said that God ended that program and left it running on its own. It's still executing.

That program has been so excellent, that it still works just as it did when it was finished programming... although we know that some failures have occurred in the process due to the freedom of movement that was given to certain parts of the program, I am sure that everything will be rectified and will become so perfect that no previous failure will ever be remembered.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think the QRs are a very complicated example to say that the probability that random processes result in a complex system is zero.

The nature of our physical existence does not involve random processes.

All outcomes of cause and effect events occur within a limited range of outcomes limited by NAtural LAws and processes. The variability in possible outcomes is fractal based on Chaos theory. The only thing that is random is timing of an event.

 

[Eli G]

In nature there are no random processes because it was created with a purpose, that is, each thing has its specific functions and the necessary information so that it "knows" how to do it.

However, there is a certain freedom of movement that was included in the "programming" of the universe. For example, the freedom of action that intelligent beings have.

On the other hand, in the appearance of an ordered cosmos without the intervention of a Supreme Being, there is no explanation for the existence of natural laws or predetermined processes, or natural constants,... For atheists the appearance of life and ordered processes in the universe, it is simply a miracle.

PS: I don't need a speech from an evolutionist to know how reality works.