How do you detect "design"?

[Pogo]

I think the QRs are a very complicated example to say that the probability that random processes result in a complex system is zero.

I would use other examples: what is the probability that the distance between the sun, the earth and the moon has adjusted by itself, without anyone (like the Creator using his power) moving them somehow, to the point of being able to watching from the surface of the earth the corona of the sun in a total solar eclipse?

this old moldy chestnut.
it is a coinkydink, it wasn't true in the past and it won't be true in the future. It is just a result of gravity.

 

[Eli G]

That bot is already burned.

 

[Pogo]

For those with small minds:

Only the crown of the sun can be observed because the visible size of the moon occupies exactly the visible size of the sun due to the distance in which the three bodies are located in the space. If the distance varied, we would not be able to enjoy that spectacle.

PS: Idiots often think of themselves as brainy.

“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'​

~Douglas Adams

 

[Pogo]

The issue seems to be, that people want to “win” debates……rather than learning and having honest dialogues.

more projection, repeating incorrect ideas will not advance anybody's knowledge.

 

[F1fan]

PS: I don't need a speech from an evolutionist to know how reality works.

You need a 7th grade science education.

 

[Copernicus]

There is a club or sect here, that if you do not belong to it, you will be the target of any kind of attack, dishonest, cruel, fallacious... any kind of attack from the finest to the lowest that you can think of.

It's no longer about the truth, but about who defeats whom. That is the direct result of believing that humans are animals with no purpose other than to survive and regenerate.

Yes, I find it impressing that they support each other, even when one of them is clearly wrong………..it´s like a cult

From this remark, I conclude that you are simultaneously impressed and depressed at the way those clubby folks support each other even when one of them is clearly wrong.

Good on you for not behaving the same way. Oh...wait. That was very impressing to me what you did there.

 

[Eli G]

You need a 7th grade science education.

And you need to get out of the kangaroo bag.

 

[shunyadragon]

In nature there are no random processes because it was created with a purpose, that is, each thing has its specific functions and the necessary information so that it "knows" how to do it.

However, there is a certain freedom of movement that was included in the "programming" of the universe. For example, the freedom of action that intelligent beings have.

On the other hand, in the appearance of an ordered cosmos without the intervention of a Supreme Being, there is no explanation for the existence of natural laws or predetermined processes, or natural constants,... For atheists the appearance of life and ordered processes in the universe, it is simply a miracle.

PS: I don't need a speech from an evolutionist to know how reality works.

The nature of our physical existence does not involve random processes.

All outcomes of cause and effect events occur within a limited range of outcomes limited by NAtural LAws and processes. The variability in possible outcomes is fractal based on Chaos theory. The only thing that is random is timing of an event.

 

[Eli G]

Another burned bot.

 

[shunyadragon]

Another burned bot.

You can rattle your cage all you want it does not change the facts . . .

The nature of our physical existence does not involve random processes. More correct is that randomness is not a process., It would a claim that there is no observed pattern of the nature of the pattern in the outcome of cause and effect events.

All outcomes of cause and effect events occur within a limited range of outcomes limited by NAtural LAws and processes. The variability in possible outcomes is fractal based on Chaos theory. The only thing that is random is timing of an event.

 

[Eli G]

Only a burned bot repeat three times the same paragraph.

I'm surprised that no moderators notice these bot errors and fix them before they start repeating non-stop in all threads and they can't control it in the end.

Don't they know that this is how forums end up being destroyed by cyber bugs?

PS: Then don't say that I didn't warn you to help you.

 

[F1fan]

And you need to get out of the kangaroo bag.

A kangaroo bag. That sounds fancy. And it makes zero sense.

If you think there's a designer of the universe, why aren't things perfect?

 

[McBell]

Only a burned bot repeat three times the same paragraph.

You just proved you have seen it at least three of the five or eight times it was presented to you.
Yet the only acknowledgement of it from you is to whine about its existence.

 

[leroy]

There is no straw man here and I am now wholly convinced that you don't know what a straw man actually is.

What I've done here is revealed the problem with your argument and with your methodology. You seem to think that's called a straw man, for some reason.



You are arguing an irrelevancy. The QR code is designed right from the start. Whether it opens a website or does nothing at all, is irrelevant. As I've already pointed out to you and provided the example of the QR code that I designed that didn't work. The fact that my QR code didn't take me to the website I'd designed it to, doesn't mean the QR code is suddenly not designed.

It is a straw man because nobody is arguing the opposite……………………I agree with what you said (the red text above)

What I said is that the letters and numbers that you insert in the QR generator could be designed or non-design (random for example)

Nobody is denying that all QRs are design………….all i am saying is that the data (numbers and letters) mayo r may not be designed………………….this is not supposed to be controversial nor hard to understand.

The fact that my QR code didn't take me to the website I'd designed it to, doesn't mean the QR code is suddenly not designed.

This is also a straw man………

What I said is that opening a web site implies design………………..but not opening a website doesn’t imply no – design



In other words if it opens a website the data (letters and numbers) where designed

If it doesn’t open a web site…………then we don’t know




..... this is not hard.........so please stop pretending that you dont understand

 

[Copernicus]

Only a burned bot repeat three times the same paragraph.

You just proved you have seen it at least three of the five or eight times it was presented to you.
Yet the only acknowledgement of it from you is to whine about its existence.

OTOH, would a bot argue back or just continue with a programmed whine? It would be possible to program a bot to complain about bots. Now I'm getting a headache. Now I'm getting a headache. Now I'm getting a headache.

 

[wellwisher]

The nature of our physical existence does not involve random processes.

All outcomes of cause and effect events occur within a limited range of outcomes limited by NAtural LAws and processes. The variability in possible outcomes is fractal based on Chaos theory. The only thing that is random is timing of an event.

I agree with this. Random is how things appear, if you do not understand the hidden logic.

The ancient people did not have modern science to help them explain the natural world with logic. E=MC2 is not obvious. Most things we see as rational today, they saw as being in the dark. To create rational order in this darkness; their version of a black box, they assumed the whims of the gods. The whims of the gods, did not mean the gods were random. Rather it meant that humans were not advanced enough to understand their logic, since the logic of the gods, was way beyond humans and had an order that did not know. Why have a god of the ocean, who has no clue about water or why he made fish? That would make him random. Instead he knew what he was doing, and if there was a tidal wave, he had his reason. But the humans could not anticipate this. Many consulted oracles for a light in the dark. The God may give a hint.

Statistics is an modern oracle tool, to help those in the dark, make predictions. It is a useful tool. A smaller man with a chain saw can make a stronger man with an ax appear less productive. This oracle is a math chain saw. It is applied science called pure science, since pure is rational but applied can use tricks; unnatural materials not from nature for a magic trick.

Because the tool had lots of merit and increased productivity, the oracle tool morphed into the god of the black box. When the term intelligent Designed was coined, it led to an Atheist panic, since those words challenged the god of the black box. If it was true, the god of the black box would be superseded by god of the lighted box; logic. It would be the age of reason all over again.

Applied science was moving fast; post WWII, especially in the 1950's. Making new drugs was one area that was a big money maker. However, making drugs was a long difficult process, if you do not understand the cause and effect between the drugs and the patient. The growing industry needed lot of skilled workers, but there was not enough trained experts, who could make drugs on the fly.

An applied mathematician tool helped bypass the need for special knowledge and logic, in favor of a black box assumption and the statistical experimental design; the math chain saw for harvesting drugs. The black box means you no longer needed all the extra knowledge and ingenuity of Thomas Edison. You could less be educated and specialized; less expensive, but still more productive by using an assembly line experimental design tool. Somewhere, people forgot about the using a tool, due to the wealth created, and assumed the tool defined reality; random, and not just a cost savings and profit.

I would challenge any Pharmaceutical company to get rid of the tool; chain saw, to prove me wrong. Most would be in the dark without their god for light in the dark. This is called the scientific method but it is more than science; mysticism.

 

[leroy]

If you think there's a designer of the universe, why aren't things perfect?

Granted………..things don’t seem to be perfect. And I admit that this is a valid and strong objection against Christian theism.

See how easy it is to admit that my opponents have good arguments?...................

Why can´t you do the same?......I mean I could also play skeptic and ask you for evidence that the world is not perfect………..and then reply “no that is not evidence because I say so”…………. But I don’t do that because I don’t like to play dishonest games.

 

[Eli G]

But the thing is that actually the world is perfect ... but men destroyed it.

 

[leroy]

Fail 1, they don't open anything.

I honestly did my best effort and you still fail to understand so ether

1 you are to dumb to understand

2 I am too band in expalinign stuff

3 (most likely) you are just pretending not to understand

In any case I am not interested in wasting time with you………………

Fail 2 Again they don't open anything, I will grant that they are codes since they are QR codes and not just something that bears some resemblance to a QR Code. Which brings up the question of how do you know it is a code and what kind of code it is?

Fail 3 So does a box of rocks, how do you determine if you have enough? of what?

Fail 1 and 2 for the third time, I won't count it again. Again, they don't open anything external to themselves.

Fail 4 Ah, another variation of I don't know but it doesn't look random to me so it must be designed.

Fail 5 Nothing you have said is useful in detecting design, or even relevant to the two images I posted. You got as far as thinking they are QR codes because someone told you they are, but beyond that all of your thoughts about them are just plain wrong so I guess it is that hard for you to understand that your idea of SC fails.

The world is safe from you for another night.

I won’t even read it…………..if your fail to understand the first sentence…………you have no opportunity to understand and correctly address the rest.

 

[leroy]

But the thing is that actually the world is perfect ...

I am not staying that the world is not perfect……………I am saying that at least intuitively it seems to be very unperfected……………..which is an issue that gives atheist some points. (perhaps our intuition is wrong)

but men destroyed it.

and what about women?



Just kidding, I don’t find that argument very convincing...............do we have cancer, and earthqquakes because of men?