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How do you feel about Universalists? (Non-Asatruar welcome)

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I understand a lot of New Zealanders, those of English descent, have begun taking up certain of the Native customs and practices. And the Natives embrace this wholeheartedly.

It's making English-descended New Zealanders truly Native to that land's ancient traditions in a way most Americans probably never could be here.

Wow, I hadn't heard that. That's pretty awesome. :) After all, even the Europeans have been living on that land for awhile now and it makes sense that some would want to honor the Gods and Spirits of the land and water in the Native fashion. Like painted wolf pointed out, many Europeans and Africans became adopted members of First Nations tribes. European settlers were known to run away from the white settlements and be absorbed into nearby tribes because their ways were more appealing to them. Sometimes, the other white settlers would kill those who did that. Maybe they were jealous. :D

It does make sense to first look to your own heritage and culture and see if its native ways call to you, but that doesn't always happen and sometimes there's a strong draw towards another culture. Things happen and you just go with it. I don't think that should be looked down upon. It's mainly a cultural and "heart" thing.
 
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Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
I was previously told the "Aryan's" came from Russia and spread out from that region. The Aryan's being Persians would make a whole lot of sense doe.

Anyway... It's like bigotry towards the white race to combat "supremecy" and bigotry on the other races, utter stupidity, I'm not arguing. These other races would have been considered mongrel, now the white devil is the mongrel. I do not agree with any of the Nazi views, Nazi is what it boils down to. I do, however, see the "Aryan" (Nord) as the protogenesis of the Caucasian people.

Then we can go into Neanderthals and apes and Giants. Was the Nord last? I don't think so.

Bio-engineered freaks? (ww2) **** no.

1HbsqRD.jpg


Do I agree with Hitler? No.

Winston Churchill executed all them thorough bread boys.

UJ2YD6y.jpg



They had recessive gene's.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member

...

McNallen's words...
4. Illegal immigration on the present scale is a form of conquest.
There are many ways to seize power in a country. Mao Zedung, Che Guevara, and Nguyen Vo Giap favored rural-based revolution involving guerrilla warfare. Leninist theory revolves around taking over existing institutions – “the organizational weapon.” In societies with just the right kind of bureaucracy, eager colonels can force a coup d’etat.

Today we are witnessing a new method of takeover. The formula is simple: Infiltrate an area with large numbers of illegals with strong ties to their home country. Encourage each new immigrant, legal or otherwise, to bring in his or her extended family. Obtain the diplomatic and political support of the sending country – in this case, Mexico. Build a network of nonprofit organizations with money from liberal foundations and government grants. Interlock the nonprofits and local political entities to form a comprehensive alternative governmental structure. Maintain racial and cultural solidarity while driving out competing races and cultures – one neighborhood, one town, one county at a time. If anyone objects, accuse them of “racism.”

It is working. Or rather, it has already worked over vast regions of what is still technically the American Southwest.

You know, I actually did have some respect for the guy. I never agreed with his Folkist views, but some of his videos and articles did provide some knowledge on how rituals, etc. are done when I was first exploring.

Well, so much for that respect. It's gone.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
...

McNallen's words...


You know, I actually did have some respect for the guy. I never agreed with his Folkist views, but some of his videos and articles did provide some knowledge on how rituals, etc. are done when I was first exploring.

Well, so much for that respect. It's gone.

Sorry. :(
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Wow, I hadn't heard that. That's pretty awesome. :)

To be fair, I'm mostly speaking from watching the Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit making-of documentaries. I recall seeing a few very European-looking folks taking part in the Maori Haka given to Viggo Mortensen at the end of shooting Return of the King, and a blessing ritual kicking off filming The Hobbit.

After all, even the Europeans have been living on that land for awhile now and it makes sense that some would want to honor the Gods and Spirits of the land and water in the Native fashion. Like painted wolf pointed out, many Europeans and Africans became adopted members of First Nations tribes. European settlers were known to run away from the white settlements and be absorbed into nearby tribes because their ways were more appealing to them. Sometimes, the other white settlers would kill those who did that. Maybe they were jealous. :D

It does make sense to first look to your own heritage and culture and see if its native ways call to you, but that doesn't always happen and sometimes there's a strong draw towards another culture. Things happen and you just go with it. I don't think that should be looked down upon. It's mainly a cultural and "heart" thing.
For me, the whole "Roanoke Mystery" is no mystery at all. ^_^


Don't be. I'd rather know the truth, so I don't direct other seekers to him.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I do, however, see the "Aryan" (Nord) as the protogenesis of the Caucasian people.

Unless they were speaking an Aryan language, they weren't Aryan.

Simple as that.

I'm mostly Irish (Insular Celtic) and Greek (Hellenic) in heritage. But because a Germanic language is my native one, I'm Germanic.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
...

McNallen's words...


You know, I actually did have some respect for the guy. I never agreed with his Folkist views, but some of his videos and articles did provide some knowledge on how rituals, etc. are done when I was first exploring.

Well, so much for that respect. It's gone.


He's making a valid point regarding invasive immigration; which is not only happening in America but around the glob.

People in America think the Government is stupid for having such a rigid military gaurd when there are atleast two countries, Russia and China, more than willing to invade us over the bluff. That's not paranoia or war mongering that's a fact - the idea of conquest is more than alive around the world.

Bleeding hearts can whine it out all they want. America is doing it's best for racial and personal equalities while facing invasive invasions and basically screwing itself for this idea of democracy.


Whatever you say Riverwolf.

I'm mostly Irish but know my ancestors were mostly Germanic, I only speak English out of laziness, so I guess I'm American.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
To be fair, I'm mostly speaking from watching the Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit making-of documentaries. I recall seeing a few very European-looking folks taking part in the Maori Haka given to Viggo Mortensen at the end of shooting Return of the King, and a blessing ritual kicking off filming The Hobbit.

Ah. Well, that's still pretty cool. :)

For me, the whole "Roanoke Mystery" is no mystery at all. ^_^
Hahaha. You know, that makes a lot of sense! :D

Don't be. I'd rather know the truth, so I don't direct other seekers to him.
True. I just know what it's like to be let down by people. But it is certainly better to know the truth.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
He's making a valid point regarding invasive immigration; which is not only happening in America but around the glob.

It's just bile. Those words are not worth anything but to be thrown in the thrash heap to be stomped on.

The fool either is completely unaware of what's going on south of the border, or he's an even bigger fool by ignoring it.

The US went though this exact same thing about 100-150 years ago. My own Irish ancestors, and McNallen's. (IOW, he's defecating on his own ancestors' pain). In that sense, I regard Mexicans trying to escape the horrible situation in Mexico right now as kindred. They're more my kindred than white supremacists sharing my ancestry will ever be. (Besides, I live in California, which is only part of the US because the US government basically stole it from Mexico.)

That's not paranoia
Yes it is.

Frankly, at this point, I'd be more worried about an invasion by AFA than by China. That's how fascist regimes get to you: from within and by giving you a common enemy. (And yes, parts of the article linked to did send up some of those same red flags, particularly at the end.)

Whatever you say Riverwolf.
It's the words of actual linguists. The people who actually coined the word "Aryan" in this sort of reference.

The Sanskrit word literally means "noble." It's cognate with the Avestan word "Iran", which is the name the Persians had for themselves, in the past and now.

I'm mostly Irish but know my ancestors were mostly Germanic, I only speak English out of laziness, so I guess I'm American.
English is English, and is a Germanic language.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
He's making a valid point regarding invasive immigration; which is not only happening in America but around the glob.

People in America think the Government is stupid for having such a rigid military gaurd when there are atleast two countries, Russia and China, more than willing to invade us over the bluff. That's not paranoia or war mongering that's a fact - the idea of conquest is more than alive around the world.

Bleeding hearts can whine it out all they want. America is doing it's best for racial and personal equalities while facing invasive invasions and basically screwing itself for this idea of democracy.


Whatever you say Riverwolf.

I'm mostly Irish but know my ancestors were mostly Germanic, I only speak English out of laziness, so I guess I'm American.

The situation of illegal immigration from Central and South America is much too complex to boil down to the typical right-wing tripe. Better to look at the economic situation that has been imposed due to free trade policies like NAFTA and the drug trafficking, for a start. Mexico is a very scary place in many parts due to the cartels, whose violence makes ISIS look like innocent angels, as well as the poverty and lack of work. I'd run, too.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The situation of illegal immigration from Central and South America is much too complex to boil down to the typical right-wing tripe. Better to look at the economic situation that has been imposed due to free trade policies like NAFTA and the drug trafficking, for a start. Mexico is a very scary place in many parts due to the cartels, whose violence makes ISIS look like innocent angels, as well as the poverty and lack of work. I'd run, too.

As would I. Valhalla ain't worth that kind of hardship.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I wanted to add to the discussion about people of non-Germanic heritage becoming Asatruar. I think people can and do become reborn in a variety of cultures. None of us know the full possibility of things, so how can we rule that out? Perhaps they were Germanic in a past life. So there's that, along with the fact that if you're born and raised in the West, you're pretty much Germanic as it is, like Riverwolf said, because of the culture and the language you're speaking.

So there's all kinds of valid reasons why this could happen. :)
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I wanted to add to the discussion about people of non-Germanic heritage becoming Asatruar. I think people can and do become reborn in a variety of cultures. None of us know the full possibility of things, so how can we rule that out? Perhaps they were Germanic in a past life. So there's that, along with the fact that if you're born and raised in the West, you're pretty much Germanic as it is, like Riverwolf said, because of the culture and the language you're speaking.

So there's all kinds of valid reasons why this could happen. :)

I once found a great article (don't remember where) that put it beautifully:

"Asatru" means "True to the Aesir". Who's truer to the Aesir: the European man who's general focus in writing and talks is on racial and ethnic issues, or the African man who argues about the nature and relationship between Odin and Loki and the meaning behind Odin's humiliation of Thor?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
As would I. Valhalla ain't worth that kind of hardship.

Besides, most of the Mexicans I know of are hard working people who aren't hurting anything. They seriously work their butts off. Besides, I've long had a love for Mexican culture and the indigenous cultures that it stems from. Mesomericans are a wonderful people.

I'll admit that I have a problem with some of the immigrants and that's usually some of the Africans, Pakistanis and the Nepalese around here, because some of them are very rude. But that's a cultural thing. But for the most part, I like the immigrants. I like the Arabs, the East Asians, the West Africans, the Latinos, etc.

I lay the blame on the government and the corporations for using people as cheap labor and screwing up social benefit programs. There's corruption in these refugee resettlement programs. As usual, it comes down to $$$. But poor people fighting with other poor people isn't going to solve anything.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I once found a great article (don't remember where) that put it beautifully:

"Asatru" means "True to the Aesir". Who's truer to the Aesir: the European man who's general focus in writing and talks is on racial and ethnic issues, or the African man who argues about the nature and relationship between Odin and Loki and the meaning behind Odin's humiliation of Thor?

Well put. :)

There are non-white Asatruar:

2635_74492466634_562316634_2218203_3005674_n.jpg


Of course, that image is taken from a blog post that's whining about it. :rolleyes:

3)There is no religious justification at all for excluding other races. The concept is not mentioned, even once, in any Edda or Saga. If it were such an important part of heathenry as Folkists of the first two types make it out to be, then it would have received at least a passing reference by the ancients. It's not like they were unaware of other races. They were great travellers, explorers, traders, conquerors, who ranged far into eastern europe and even into northern africa. So it is quite apparent to anyone not trying to shut their ears against what they don't want to hear that the real motivation of these Folkists is not religious at all, but political. That this is so can be seen by visiting the message boards and websites of such Folkists. Many focus primarily on the issue of race and such political issues, mentioning actual religious ideas little, if at all. One popular message board I visited for White Power Folkists and the second type of Folkist (the honestly intentioned, if confused type) had a total of 72 threads that had little to nothing to do with religion in any way, about a third of which were concerned with issues of race. It had only 25 threads on religious topics. This same board had, as its introduction, a long rant about White Power and the need to exclude other races from Asatru but it literally had nothing at all about the practice of the religion. In contrast I know a black man who honors Thor as a patron, and accepts the ancient heathen culture and religion as guiding principles. When he talks it is about religious matters, not political ones. About Loki's true nature, and why one should or shouldn't walk Odin's path. About the less well known aspects of Thorrish worship. Its not difficult to tell who is the more truly religious.


...


The members of the middle faction of modern Asatru are called Tribalists, and shun the errors of either extreme. The racism of Folkish practice is avoided as well as the "anything goes" motto of the Universalists. The answer the Tribalists have to the question of "Who can practice Asatru?" is: "Anyone who makes a sufficient effort to understand and adopt the culture of the ancient heathens." This gives Asatru rigorous enough standards to make sure our practice is like that of the ancients, and is well understood, for to fully adopt another culture requires MUCH study. Additionally the gods first came to be known in the context of the ancient culture, so it stands to reason that they can only be truly understood in the terms of that culture. It also keeps us from the untenable argument that "other races" are somehow so intellectually inferior to the Norse and Germanic that they cannot attain this understanding. After all, someone brought up in modern Western culture is quite likely, from childhood on, to have been inundated with images, stories, and ideas from that Western culture, thus including our religion. This would make anyone in our culture, whatever the color of the skin, likely enough to have a way of thinking predominantly drawn to Asatru in religious matters, and much more ready to understand it, than some religion their ancestors happened to practice so long ago it isn't a part of their lives anymore.


Uppsala: Racism in Asatru


That article's definition of tribalist Asatru makes the most sense to me!


worth-not-birth.jpg
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Well put. :)

There are non-white Asatruar:

2635_74492466634_562316634_2218203_3005674_n.jpg


Of course, that image is taken from a blog post that's whining about it. :rolleyes:

LOL.

Call me colorblind, but that guy doesn't look out of place at all. And I add this because I know there's people like me who can't tell, NO, I'm not being sarcastic.

Uppsala: Racism in Asatru


That article's definition of tribalist Asatru makes the most sense to me!


worth-not-birth.jpg
The only reason I tend to shy away from the term "tribalism" is because it has a history of similar behavior as extreme folkism. When I was learning about the Rwanda genocide, for example, tribalism was the force blamed.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
By the way, folks, remember this (whether if you are okay with universalism, are universalist, or against it; this is more for lurkers):

Germanic does NOT refer to a tribe or race. Nor does Celtic. (Nor Aryan, for that matter). These are LINGUISTIC terms, referring to the languages certain Tribes spoke. The Iberian Celts, despite speaking Celtic languages, probably (this is admittedly unresearched) had culture more in common with that of the rest the the Western Mediterranean; i.e., Rome and Carthage. There was no real unity or homogeneity among the Northern Tribes, except in some shared languages and a loose pan-culture (including a pan-religion). A Suebi man would probably tear your head off for saying he was the same as a Cherusci man.

...and for the record, the only people who can truly say that they are "Aryan" are Iranians. For crying out loud, it's right there in the bloody name.

:bow: :bow: :bow:

They are indeed linguistic terms, referring to language families. The Celts lived in what is now France also, as well as the British Isles and Iberia. They were different peoples, having the Celtic language(s) in common; there are several subfamilies and languages and many dialects.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
... and the meaning behind Odin's humiliation of Thor?

Do I know that story? I know Thor was humiliated by Utgard-loki. That was one of the first stories I came upon years ago.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Do I know that story? I know Thor was humiliated by Utgard-loki. That was one of the first stories I came upon years ago.

It's the Lay of The Ferryman (ON Hárbarzljóð), one of the Lays in the Poetic Edda. In it, Thor comes across Odin in disguise as a Ferryman, and they have an argument, in which Odin basically just humiliates the God of Thunder.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Thanks, I haven't got to the Poetic Edda yet. I'm just up to the High Ones telling Gangleri about the gods and goddesses in the Prose Edda. Looking forward to the Potic Edda. I have both Bray's and Bellows versions.
 
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