How does one reconcile the view of Jesus in the Qu'ran with the Bible?

[Muffled]

I believe someone asked if it could be done.

I believe the Holy Spirit did it for me and verified the Qu'ran as the Word of God.

The issues as I know them are:

The Trinity
I believe this is actually stated in Sura 2. Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the sonship which implies the fathership of God

The death of Jesus on the cross.
The Bible bears out the statement in the Qu'ran that Jesus didn't die but not the fairy tale (not in the Qu'ran) that the body was replaced by another.

The concept of sons of God.
I believe the Qu'ran correctly reports God;s policy of not siring children and in so doing affirms the incarnation.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Ummmmm no

 

[nPeace]

I believe someone asked if it could be done.

I believe the Holy Spirit did it for me and verified the Qu'ran as the Word of God.

The issues as I know them are:

The Trinity
I believe this is actually stated in Sura 2. Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the sonship which implies the fathership of God

The death of Jesus on the cross.
The Bible bears out the statement in the Qu'ran that Jesus didn't die but not the fairy tale (not in the Qu'ran) that the body was replaced by another.

The concept of sons of God.
I believe the Qu'ran correctly reports God;s policy of not siring children and in so doing affirms the incarnation.

Does the Quran say that Allah has a son?

Jesus in Islam
In Islam, ʿĪsā ibn Maryam (Arabic: عيسى بن مريم‎, lit. 'Jesus, son of Mary'), or Jesus, is understood to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God (Allah) and al-Masih, the Arabic term for Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation: al-Injīl (Arabic for "the gospel"). Jesus is believed to be a prophet who neither married nor had any children and is reflected as a significant figure, being found in the Quran in 93 verses with various titles attached such as "Son of Mary" and other relational terms, mentioned directly and indirectly, over 187 times. He is thus the most mentioned person in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times, and the rest as titles and attributes.

In Islam, Jesus is believed to have been the precursor to Muhammad, attributing the name Ahmad to someone who would follow him. Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and teaches that Jesus was not God incarnate, nor the Son of God, and - according to some interpretations of the Quran - the crucifixion, death and resurrection is not believed to have occurred, and rather that God saved him. Despite the earliest Muslim traditions and exegesis quoting somewhat conflicting reports regarding a death and its length, the mainstream Muslim belief is that Jesus did not physically die, but was instead raised alive to heaven.

The Quran does not recognize Allah as having a son.
It apparently does not seem to recognize the Divinity or reincarnation of Christ.

According to the Quran:
Al-Quran Surah 4. An-Nisaa, Ayah 171
So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

The Shahada ("the testimony") is an Islamic creed, one of the Five Pillars of Islam, declaring belief in the oneness of God (tawhid) and the acceptance of Muhammad as God's prophet. The declaration, in its shortest form, reads (right to left in Arabic):

noun: shahadah

1. the Muslim profession of faith (“there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”).

The Five Pillars of Islam ("pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam, considered mandatory by believers and are the foundation of Muslim life. They are summarized in the famous hadith of Gabriel.

Even though the Quran encourages use of the scripture, it stops short of the overall message of the Bible, imo. It accepts and encourages acceptance of the Torah, and many other books of the Bible (I have to check if it accepts all), and therefore like the Bible it teaches Deuteronomy 6:4, and does not support the doctrine of the Trinity (Divinity of Christ).
However there are areas of conflict, which I won't get into now, since it is not required by the OP.

Islam recognizes Jesus as just a prophet of God, not the son of God, so my question would be, how can the two be reconciled? I don't see how.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Different authors, in different places, at different times, with different agendas. It would be surprising if they were LESS divergent.

 

[74x12]

I believe someone asked if it could be done.

I believe the Holy Spirit did it for me and verified the Qu'ran as the Word of God.

The issues as I know them are:

The Trinity
I believe this is actually stated in Sura 2. Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the sonship which implies the fathership of God

The death of Jesus on the cross.
The Bible bears out the statement in the Qu'ran that Jesus didn't die but not the fairy tale (not in the Qu'ran) that the body was replaced by another.

The concept of sons of God.
I believe the Qu'ran correctly reports God;s policy of not siring children and in so doing affirms the incarnation.

How do you reconcile the Quran with 2 John 1:7 which states that anyone who says Jesus didn't come in the flesh is antichrist? So the Quran claims that Jesus didn't die(in the flesh) and so that would fall into this category.

 

[Muffled]

Ummmmm no

I believe on can hardly debate such creative logic.

 

[Muffled]

Does the Quran say that Allah has a son?

Jesus in Islam
In Islam, ʿĪsā ibn Maryam (Arabic: عيسى بن مريم‎, lit. 'Jesus, son of Mary'), or Jesus, is understood to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God (Allah) and al-Masih, the Arabic term for Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation: al-Injīl (Arabic for "the gospel"). Jesus is believed to be a prophet who neither married nor had any children and is reflected as a significant figure, being found in the Quran in 93 verses with various titles attached such as "Son of Mary" and other relational terms, mentioned directly and indirectly, over 187 times. He is thus the most mentioned person in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times, and the rest as titles and attributes.

In Islam, Jesus is believed to have been the precursor to Muhammad, attributing the name Ahmad to someone who would follow him. Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and teaches that Jesus was not God incarnate, nor the Son of God, and - according to some interpretations of the Quran - the crucifixion, death and resurrection is not believed to have occurred, and rather that God saved him. Despite the earliest Muslim traditions and exegesis quoting somewhat conflicting reports regarding a death and its length, the mainstream Muslim belief is that Jesus did not physically die, but was instead raised alive to heaven.

The Quran does not recognize Allah as having a son.
It apparently does not seem to recognize the Divinity or reincarnation of Christ.

According to the Quran:
Al-Quran Surah 4. An-Nisaa, Ayah 171
So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

The Shahada ("the testimony") is an Islamic creed, one of the Five Pillars of Islam, declaring belief in the oneness of God (tawhid) and the acceptance of Muhammad as God's prophet. The declaration, in its shortest form, reads (right to left in Arabic):

noun: shahadah

1. the Muslim profession of faith (“there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”).

The Five Pillars of Islam ("pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam, considered mandatory by believers and are the foundation of Muslim life. They are summarized in the famous hadith of Gabriel.

Even though the Quran encourages use of the scripture, it stops short of the overall message of the Bible, imo. It accepts and encourages acceptance of the Torah, and many other books of the Bible (I have to check if it accepts all), and therefore like the Bible it teaches Deuteronomy 6:4, and does not support the doctrine of the Trinity (Divinity of Christ).
However there are areas of conflict, which I won't get into now, since it is not required by the OP.

Islam recognizes Jesus as just a prophet of God, not the son of God, so my question would be, how can the two be reconciled? I don't see how.

I believe Sura 4:171 It used to say Allah, His son but now says Allah and His word It also had the inserted expression may it never be which was not part of the original text. It looks like someone changed the translation.

So I believe as the text stands now it neither says that Jesus is Allah or is not Allah. What we have now is Allah, Jesus and the Spirit. In other words the Trinity.

 

[Muffled]

How do you reconcile the Quran with 2 John 1:7 which states that anyone who says Jesus didn't come in the flesh is antichrist? So the Quran claims that Jesus didn't die(in the flesh) and so that would fall into this category.

I believe the Bible is mysterious about this. It says that Jesus gave up the ghost. That would mean He left before the body died unless one can somehow attribute a current saying that giving up the ghost means simply that a person died but how would one know what a Jew thought about that and then John was more spiritually attuned to Jesus so he wasn't a typical Jew.

 

[nPeace]

I believe Sura 4:171 It used to say Allah, His son but now says Allah and His word It also had the inserted expression may it never be which was not part of the original text. It looks like someone changed the translation.

So I believe as the text stands now it neither says that Jesus is Allah or is not Allah. What we have now is Allah, Jesus and the Spirit. In other words the Trinity.

I am not muslim, but I like to broaden my knowledge, and have a clear understanding of other beliefs.

The current information does not mention anything about spirit, and it clearly denies the Trinity. It actually clearly says to remove any such idea from one's mind.

So I can't just go by what you believe, but if you have a credible source that shows the current information to be wrong, I will certainly give it attention.

 

[nPeace]

I believe the Bible is mysterious about this. It says that Jesus gave up the ghost. That would mean He left before the body died unless one can somehow attribute a current saying that giving up the ghost means simply that a person died but how would one know what a Jew thought about that and then John was more spiritually attuned to Jesus so he wasn't a typical Jew.

As far as I know, the scriptures say Jesus died.
It goes further to show that he was in the heart of the earth for three days - he went nowhere - and he was raised a spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Acts 2:29-32
29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

KJV
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

NIV
31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.

Romans 5:6-8
6 For, indeed, while we were still weak, Christ died for ungodly men at the appointed time. 7 For hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die. 8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus Christ was quickened / made alive in the spirit.
Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13; 1 Peter 3:18

From death, to life.
1 Corinthians 15:36 NIV
How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You said

I believe on can hardly debate such creative logic.

Then you said:

What we have now is Allah, Jesus and the Spirit. In other words the Trinity.

Again ummm no....Perhaps you need to read a transliteration of the Qur'an cause you have cle of its theology.

 

[1robin]

I believe someone asked if it could be done.

I believe the Holy Spirit did it for me and verified the Qu'ran as the Word of God.

The issues as I know them are:

The Trinity
I believe this is actually stated in Sura 2. Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the sonship which implies the fathership of God

The death of Jesus on the cross.
The Bible bears out the statement in the Qu'ran that Jesus didn't die but not the fairy tale (not in the Qu'ran) that the body was replaced by another.

The concept of sons of God.
I believe the Qu'ran correctly reports God;s policy of not siring children and in so doing affirms the incarnation.

That's easy. The one in the Quran is wrong. This is not just hyperbole. The witnesses in the bible were contemporary, the ones in the Quran came centuries later. The bible is also the word of several independent authors where as the Quran is the opinion of one highly suspicious character who never met Christ nor anyone that knew him.

 

[Muffled]

I am not muslim, but I like to broaden my knowledge, and have a clear understanding of other beliefs.

The current information does not mention anything about spirit, and it clearly denies the Trinity. It actually clearly says to remove any such idea from one's mind.

So I can't just go by what you believe, but if you have a credible source that shows the current information to be wrong, I will certainly give it attention.

I believe not saying Trinity is not enough information to say that the text denies the Trinity. It certainly doesn't say to remove the idea from your mind.

Maybe you have the wrong verse. Different translations versify differently.

 

[Muffled]

As far as I know, the scriptures say Jesus died.
It goes further to show that he was in the heart of the earth for three days - he went nowhere - and he was raised a spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Acts 2:29-32
29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

KJV
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

NIV
31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.

Romans 5:6-8
6 For, indeed, while we were still weak, Christ died for ungodly men at the appointed time. 7 For hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die. 8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus Christ was quickened / made alive in the spirit.
Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13; 1 Peter 3:18

From death, to life.
1 Corinthians 15:36 NIV
How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

I believe they do but they don't say whether they know that for sure or if it was a perception or simply a deduction from the fact that Jesus ended up dead. We have the benefit of having the whole scripture available to us to study and the Holy Spirit to help us understand what is written.

 

[Muffled]

That's easy. The one in the Quran is wrong. This is not just hyperbole. The witnesses in the bible were contemporary, the ones in the Quran came centuries later. The bible is also the word of several independent authors where as the Quran is the opinion of one highly suspicious character who never met Christ nor anyone that knew him.

I believe that statement is false.

I believe that doesn't count because God is a witness.

I believe God sees Muhammad as speaking His word.

 

[Muffled]

You said




Then you said:



Again ummm no....Perhaps you need to read a transliteration of the Qur'an cause you have cle of its theology.

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (4. Women - IslamiCity)

The reason not to say Trinity is not because it doesn't exist but because there is one God. This is true in the Trinity.

 

[nPeace]

I believe not saying Trinity is not enough information to say that the text denies the Trinity. It certainly doesn't say to remove the idea from your mind.

Maybe you have the wrong verse. Different translations versify differently.

I pulled up the verse on this page, which has five translations.

Excerpts
Asad Quran Translation
..Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son:

Malik Quran Translation
...So believe in Allah and His Rasools and do not say: "Trinity"." Stop saying that, it is better for you. Allah is only One Deity. He is far above from the need of having a son!...

Pickthall Quran Translation
...So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son....

Yusuf Ali Quran Translation
...so believe in Allah and His Apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son....

I don't know the language in the Quran Transliteration.

I don't know... perhaps there may be other translations. Do you have a reference to others?

From what I read, it seems to be more than just discouraging saying it.
The context shows that by saying, 'Allah is one.'
It also says he has no son, but is independent of anyone or anything - it looks like to me.

I don't think I am qualified to interpret the Quran, and I don't want to assume that position. I don't think a Christian should either, because imo, that would be the same as an unbeliever trying to interpret the Bible.
I think it would be best to let a Muslim explain these things, so that you can weight the reasoning behind the explanation given.
That's just me.

Don't you think that's reasonable?

 

[nPeace]

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him:

There you go

Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah.

The reason not to say Trinity is not because it doesn't exist but because there is one God. This is true in the Trinity.

No. You are doing what most people do with the Bible. Trying to make a doctrine fit a text, by interpreting the text to fit the doctrine.
It did not say three in one. Why add that?

Try this:
Pickthall Quran Translation
...So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God.

 

[nPeace]

I believe they do but they don't say whether they know that for sure or if it was a perception or simply a deduction from the fact that Jesus ended up dead. We have the benefit of having the whole scripture available to us to study and the Holy Spirit to help us understand what is written.

What are you saying?
The scriptures have no basis for what is truth?

 

[1robin]

I believe that statement is false.

Of course you do. It is required of you, but we are not here to list things we do not believe in we are here to examine which of us is right. Saying you do not believe in something is not an argument, it is a declaration which does not get us any closer to the truth.

I believe that doesn't count because God is a witness.

Again, your telling me what you believe it instead of why it is true. God gave us the holy spirit after Jesus ascended to guide us into all truth. Starting with the apostles who to a man said Christ was the son of God, died for our sins, and rose again. By the law of non-contradiction both what the apostles said and what Muhammad said cannot possibly both be true. Either all the apostles or Muhammad can be right but both can't be. I am claiming the apostles got it right because they all independently came to the same conclusion and that they lived contemporary with Jesus. Muhammad contradicts what all the people who were there say and he came 500 years too late. If God told the apostles one thing and Muhammad another then he isn't really much of a God. So both Muhammad and the apostles can't possibly be true but every argument suggests the apostles got it right. What you need to show is why anyone should believe Muhammad over the apostles.

I believe God sees Muhammad as speaking His word.

Again, this is not an argument. It is a declaration. Instead of just listing your beliefs you need to explain why your beliefs are true.