How does Social Justice get to "equality"? (e.g. sins of the father?)

[icehorse]

This question is part political and perhaps part philosophical.

Let's take women in the workplace as an example. We want to achieve goals like equal pay, equal opportunity for advancement, and harassment-free work environments. All fine goals.

Jordan Peterson - who IMO sometimes has good perspectives - asks an interesting question: If we want harassment-free work places, should we disallow the wearing of alluring clothing and makeup? This is NOT to suggest that men cannot contain themselves. It's more to acknowledge that women have certain advantages that men don't. For the most part women can use "being alluring" more than men can. That's just biology. To take the example further, can a man ask a woman coworker out on a date? If initially rejected, can he ask multiple times? At what point does it become harassment? Do the same rules apply for a woman? Can a woman flirt endlessly (of course everyone can flirt)? Do men have a group debt to pay to women?

I'm still wondering about the case of Al Franken. I might not have all the data, but from what I know, his punishment seems to have far outweighed his "crimes". And I would contend that even though he screwed up, his punishment hurt the entire country. Was this justice?

I know this post has rambled around a bit, I apologize, I'm tying to figure out how to organize thinking about these topics.

Thoughts?

 

[icehorse]

Show me that in a bio textbook and maybe i'll take that claim seriously.

Could we sometimes just use common experience and common sense?

 

[bobhikes]

This question is part political and perhaps part philosophical.

The problem I see with social justice is Equality meeting Individuality. A is never equal to A. Social justice is basically a poll of the current beliefs and the populist view wins, Over time the populist view changes and then we get a period of unrest until it aligns again. There are always individuals that won't agree with the Social Standard and still not be doing anything criminally wrong. In my opinion law's should not be made on social standards but on individual's freedoms. No law should take away an individuals freedom unless the act can directly harm another.

Requiring driver's license, Should be a law because not being trained and driving a car will most likely end up hurting another individual.
Wearing seat belts only effects the individual above 18 in the car, should not be a law.
Children under 18 are considered not able to understand and forced to ride, a law based on facts to make them wear seat belts would be Valid.

 

[sun rise]

It's easy to get off track and go too far in every possible direction. To me the path is by keeping the goal in mind, recognizing when a situation has gone too far in one direction or another and by acknowledging that the path is full of bumbling and stumbling.

 

[Audie]

Show me that in a bio textbook and maybe i'll take that claim seriously.

Goodness, are you naive!

 

[fantome profane]

It's more to acknowledge that women have certain advantages that men don't.

This is another of those situations where it is true because we have been conditioned to think it is true. It is part of our culture, not part of our biology. But culture has as much an affect on our neurology as biology does, so it is true but only because we think it is true. We can change our thinking.

https://www.amazon.ca/Beauty-Myth-N...id=1532629128&sr=8-1&keywords=the+beauty+myth

 

[icehorse]

A woman's choice to wear "Alluring" clothing and makeup in no way promote harassment in the work place.

However I can think of many instances where women I know have been demanded to wear makeup and revealing clothing by a supervisor.

A woman's choice of what to wear is a really weird thing to peg as an issue to me.

I'm not using it to "peg an issue".

This is another of those situations where it is true because we have been conditioned to think it is true. It is part of our culture, not part of our biology. But culture has as much an affect on our neurology as biology does, so it is true but only because we think it is true. We can change our thinking.

https://www.amazon.ca/Beauty-Myth-N...id=1532629128&sr=8-1&keywords=the+beauty+myth

Not where i really intended to go, but i would say that this is not a settled bit of science. Of course there is some cultural impact, but things like looking for physical, left-right symmetry in a potential mate is almost 100% biology.

 

[fantome profane]

Not where i really intended to go, but i would say that this is not a settled bit of science. Of course there is some cultural impact, but things like looking for physical, left-right symmetry in a potential mate is almost 100% biology.

Yes, but both males and females look for symmetry on their mate. But things like make up, high heels, dresses and skirts, hosiery etc are cultural, and have been worn by both genders throughout human history.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Not where i really intended to go, but i would say that this is not a settled bit of science. Of course there is some cultural impact, but things like looking for physical, left-right symmetry in a potential mate is almost 100% biology.

And also not exclusive to either men or women.