How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

[England my lionheart]

Apparently not for everybody but neither was is friend Bo Jo.

Even Bo jo in his infantile Eton ways would not send an armed assault on parliament like jan 6th or found liable for rape or sex with a terrified porn star or a play girl or hiding classified documents or or…..anyway Bo jo isn’t on trial ,the former Potus is,if he was innocent he’d obviously want to clear his name right and stand up in court

 

[Pogo]

Even Bo jo in his infantile Eton ways would not send an armed assault on parliament like jan 6th or found liable for rape or sex with a terrified porn star or a play girl or hiding classified documents or or…..anyway Bo jo isn’t on trial ,the former Potus is,if he was innocent he’d obviously want to clear his name right and stand up in court

Followed up not to long afterward by a head of lettuce, OK, you win on general despicability but I will call absurdity a tie.

 

[Stevicus]

@Stevicus ....Carter was put down as a loser......Yet, check his entire resume. Few have done more for their country and for the world.IMO

Well, yes, definitely. I liked Carter, but he was also fought internally, from within the Democratic Party.

 

[F1fan]

This is actually a good question. Does anyone remember the old SNL skit where Dana Carvey is playing Bush Sr., and John Lovitz is Michael Dukakis at the debate? After a long, rambling, pointless speech by Bush (a thousand points of light about 20 times), Dukakis is given a chance to speak and exclaims "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!"

If the democratic party can't put forward a candidate who can beat a treasonous convicted felon with a history of narcissism and no concept of duty or truth, they should be embarrassed. Very, very embarrassed. I'm not a Trump fan in any way, but if your guy looks worse than him to over half the country, that's 100% on you.

The problem is Trump is so much more vastly worse than Biden who else could do better? You have most conservatives who will never vote for anyone other than Trump. The real question is how well informed are the independents, and if they are watching media, what are they watching. If it's FOX, then they are not informed to make a sound decision.

Would another Obama type have better numbers? No matter who it is for the democrats there will be poorly informed voters who won;t like that person. Most who dislike Biden do so on wrong beliefs, like the economy being bad, or that he is anti-Israel, or anti-Gaza. Or that he's too old. He is old, but looking at his public performances he's vastly more stable and sharp than Trump. So the reason the polls are what they are is due to too many poorly informed voters, and poor judgment.

Let's note that Biden was behind in the polls in 2020. Trump was behind in the polls in 2016. Obama was behind in the polls in 2012. There's no reason to pay attention to poll numbers five months before the election.

 

[Stevicus]

The problem is Trump is so much more vastly worse than Biden who else could do better? You have most conservatives who will never vote for anyone other than Trump. The real question is how well informed are the independents, and if they are watching media, what are they watching. If it's FOX, then they are not informed to make a sound decision.

Would another Obama type have better numbers? No matter who it is for the democrats there will be poorly informed voters who won;t like that person. Most who dislike Biden do so on wrong beliefs, like the economy being bad, or that he is anti-Israel, or anti-Gaza. Or that he's too old. He is old, but looking at his public performances he's vastly more stable and sharp than Trump. So the reason the polls are what they are is due to too many poorly informed voters, and poor judgment.

Let's note that Biden was behind in the polls in 2020. Trump was behind in the polls in 2016. Obama was behind in the polls in 2012. There's no reason to pay attention to poll numbers five months before the election.

I agree that polls don't always tell the whole story, and as you say, it's still five months away from the election. At this point, my prediction is that Trump will likely lose the election. But the issues revolving around Trump and the general movement of America Firsters will continue to fester. Trump is not going to last forever, but what is the plan for after Trump?

I don't really know how well or poorly informed other voters might be. I think most citizens are probably just focused on their own lives and their day-to-day existence, while politics may be more of an abstraction to them. Even if they watch the news and become aware of the political issues, they may still see it as something far away. I'm quite certain that even the most poorly informed voters were probably told by someone at some point that Trump was a horrible person. It's not that they don't know all these things about Trump, but they simply don't care.

I don't think they're a bunch of confused, ignorant people who just aren't getting the right information. It's more a matter of raw, outright defiance. I won't necessarily compare it to the Southern hotheads in the Civil War era, but I can see some shades of similarity. I even see it in non-political situations, where people might be inclined to take a defiant, unyielding "screw you" attitude more often than not. There's a certain brazenness about it, along with raw anger and hatred. It seems a strange mix of paleo-conservative American mythos combined with pop culture nihilism.

One example which goes back a number of years is that, while I was posting on the IMDb message boards, I noticed there were certain groups of posters who would tend to root for the villains in movies - or characters who were otherwise odious or awful. Like Joe Pesci's characters in Goodfellas and Casino. Or Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, Ajax in The Warriors, the Cobra Kai in The Karate Kid, etc. Another example might be Al Pacino as both Michael Corleone and Tony Montana (Scarface). I remember one guy telling me that he admired the character of Michael Corleone because "he didn't take any crap from anyone."

Another movie from the 1990s was Falling Down with Michael Douglas, and I noticed that this movie has been getting some renewed attention lately, as there have been some recent reviews on YouTube I came across which ties the imagery of the movie with current events and considers it even more relevant than it might have been when it first came out.

Maybe this isn't the way people are supposed to think, but I've observed that this kind of thinking has somehow permeated into some of the darker corners and recesses of Americana. And it may not have much to do with politics directly, but it's just further indication of the underlying nihilistic defiance which seems to be out there. I'm not saying the movies are the issue either, but it's often interesting to see how people react to certain stimuli.

So, I honestly don't see it as a matter of certain voters being poorly informed or duped by propaganda. That may very well be true in a lot of cases, but it's only because they don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. Not to mention there have always been a certain percentage of Americans who tend to take a "screw you" attitude towards government and authority in general, from both ends of the political spectrum and even across class lines as well.

If there's one silver lining in all of this, if Trump does manage to win, he'll probably screw things up so badly that things will get even worse for the average American, and Trump's support base could quickly wither away. The very flower of right-wing politics will then be revealed to them, and they may end up moving all the way over to the far left. We could have AOC in 2028.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That many such votes would rejoice in the thought that such a victory for totalitarianism might embarrass those defeated says much about the juvenile wing of the MAGA cohort.

That exactly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The only ones who have anything to be ashamed and embarassed of are those who support a fascist, insurrectionist and traitor (and a very poor excuse of one at that).

 

[Yerda]

How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

What about the people voting for the known rapist and transparent conman? If they stopped being childish halfwits for a minute how embarrassed and ashamed woud they be?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What about the people voting for the known rapist and transparent conman? If they stopped being childish halfwits for a minute how embarrassed and ashamed woud they be?

Unless I've missed something, @anotherneil tried to hawk some puerile pro-Trump mockery, failed, and fled the thread.

 

[F1fan]

I agree that polls don't always tell the whole story, and as you say, it's still five months away from the election. At this point, my prediction is that Trump will likely lose the election. But the issues revolving around Trump and the general movement of America Firsters will continue to fester. Trump is not going to last forever, but what is the plan for after Trump?

I go back and forth on whether I think Trump will win or lose. I have no clue. Most all my friends are not Trump supporters, so when we talk there's an aggreed upon contempt for what the republicans have become.

I don't really know how well or poorly informed other voters might be. I think most citizens are probably just focused on their own lives and their day-to-day existence, while politics may be more of an abstraction to them. Even if they watch the news and become aware of the political issues, they may still see it as something far away. I'm quite certain that even the most poorly informed voters were probably told by someone at some point that Trump was a horrible person. It's not that they don't know all these things about Trump, but they simply don't care.

I don't think they're a bunch of confused, ignorant people who just aren't getting the right information. It's more a matter of raw, outright defiance. I won't necessarily compare it to the Southern hotheads in the Civil War era, but I can see some shades of similarity. I even see it in non-political situations, where people might be inclined to take a defiant, unyielding "screw you" attitude more often than not. There's a certain brazenness about it, along with raw anger and hatred. It seems a strange mix of paleo-conservative American mythos combined with pop culture nihilism.

Yeah there is surely a collection of categories. My family is from south Missouri and we don't talk politics, but from the clues I've gotten they are mostly just traditionally republican, and democrats are categorized as causing problems. My stepmom made a comment once about pelosi being crazy, so that was a clue. My dad said many years ago that he loved Sean Hannity, but that was maybe 20 years ago. But I'm sure he still is a fan. I think conservatives as a whole have few policies that are a foundation, like immigration, which they sabotaged, and tax cuts, which tend to help the most wealthy. My brother in law from Chicago is the most moderate and wise of the bunch, but he is a republican. I could see him voting Trump just because many believe he would be better for the economy. How? I don't hear that ever explained. I do know that economies prefer social stability, and I can't see Trump bringing that with what he says.

One example which goes back a number of years is that, while I was posting on the IMDb message boards, I noticed there were certain groups of posters who would tend to root for the villains in movies - or characters who were otherwise odious or awful. Like Joe Pesci's characters in Goodfellas and Casino. Or Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, Ajax in The Warriors, the Cobra Kai in The Karate Kid, etc. Another example might be Al Pacino as both Michael Corleone and Tony Montana (Scarface). I remember one guy telling me that he admired the character of Michael Corleone because "he didn't take any crap from anyone."

Another movie from the 1990s was Falling Down with Michael Douglas, and I noticed that this movie has been getting some renewed attention lately, as there have been some recent reviews on YouTube I came across which ties the imagery of the movie with current events and considers it even more relevant than it might have been when it first came out.

I saw that movie. That does seem to mirror what the average Trump supporter feels. The Jan 6 folks acted on that feeling and it did not work out well for them. I think the anger of Trump and his followers is not founded in any actual grievance. What I see on these boards, in interviews, social media, are people who are just pissed off and have little clue why. They strike me as emotionally immature people with low emotional intelligence. There are many citizens who have reason to be mad, like minorities who face discrimination of various kinds. Women whose reproductive rights are being eliminated. Liberals who have to tolerate right wing judges interfering with due process and cover for Trump in his indictments, namely Cannon and Alito. Liberals also have to deal with the massive disinformation coming from republicans and right wing media. What is the future of America if republicans get their way? Look at the role models, liars and cheaters.

Maybe this isn't the way people are supposed to think, but I've observed that this kind of thinking has somehow permeated into some of the darker corners and recesses of Americana. And it may not have much to do with politics directly, but it's just further indication of the underlying nihilistic defiance which seems to be out there. I'm not saying the movies are the issue either, but it's often interesting to see how people react to certain stimuli.

So, I honestly don't see it as a matter of certain voters being poorly informed or duped by propaganda. That may very well be true in a lot of cases, but it's only because they don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. Not to mention there have always been a certain percentage of Americans who tend to take a "screw you" attitude towards government and authority in general, from both ends of the political spectrum and even across class lines as well.

Can we call those who deliberately watch disinformation as informed? I see the republicans, right wing media, and conservative voters as in a three-way co-dependent toxic relationship. Very bad for each other, and taking everyone else down with them. They have their beliefs and feelings, but they definately aren't seeing the big picture.

If there's one silver lining in all of this, if Trump does manage to win, he'll probably screw things up so badly that things will get even worse for the average American, and Trump's support base could quickly wither away. The very flower of right-wing politics will then be revealed to them, and they may end up moving all the way over to the far left. We could have AOC in 2028.

I'm not sure AOC has a chance, but I agree with you. I do think if Trump wins, and fills the government with his dedicated staff, and tries to deport migrants, it will cause a recession due to the instability. It could even cause a global recession if he pulls out of NATO and putin gets the advantage in Ukraine, causing a dominoe effect of fear in Europe. And if China invades Taiwan, well there goes a lot of manufacturing and supply chain disruption.

I've said since 2016 that if American voters want a Trump then they are much like addicts who need to hit bottom before they realize they have a problem. They will take the rest of us with them. This is why I have been getting my financial affairs in order. I almost lost everything when the housing market collapsed in 2008, I'm not living through that again.

 

[metis]

Voting for Biden is equally a disaster in the making. I'd prefer a third or fourth party contender to break this duopoly that is clearly taking this nation down.

So says Fox, NewsMax, and blind followers of their orange messiah.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So says Fox, NewsMax, and blind followers of their orange messiah.

So as long as it isn't 'extensions' of either party masquerading as an independent one.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The only ones who have anything to be ashamed and embarassed of are those who support a fascist, insurrectionist and traitor (and a very poor excuse of one at that).

Preferable to one party, one voice, one mind socialism and communism.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Preferable to one party, one voice, one mind socialism and communism.

Which America does NOT have, despite your constant whining about it. It is wiser to be afraid of things that are actually there, than those that are not.

 

[PureX]

What is the point of the thread?
Trying to bolster support for Trump by suggesting his victory would make the Democrats feel bad?

Sure. The MAGAs LOVE the idea of humiliating their imaginary arch-enemy, "the libs". It's just the kind of petty vindictiveness that makes them feel really good about themselves.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Which America does NOT have, despite your constant whining about it. It is wiser to be afraid of things that are actually there, than those that are not.

Sez the Canadian who dosent even live here but thinks he's an expert.

 

[metis]

Sez the Canadian who dosent even live here but thinks he's an expert.

Compared to you, he's a bonafide genius!!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Preferable to one party, one voice, one mind socialism and communism.

And yet those you are screaming about did not stack the Supreme Court to enact theocracy and strip away rights the Conservative Evangelical fascists (no, they don't say fascism wins but much like the Nazis they say "God is with us."), have not been the ones attacking elections and eroding trust in them, and are not the ones who tried to overthrow an election.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So says Fox, NewsMax, and blind followers of their orange messiah.

Actually Jon Stewart basically said the same. It definitely wasn't a high point of his. Yes, there are issues with Biden. But it's basically a certain thing he'll follow withba peaceful transfer of power. Trump, as predicted by Bill Maher, does not believe in or accept a peaceful transfer of power.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And yet those you are screaming about did not stack the Supreme Court to enact theocracy and strip away rights the Conservative Evangelical fascists (no, they don't say fascism wins but much like the Nazis they say "God is with us."), have not been the ones attacking elections and eroding trust in them, and are not the ones who tried to overthrow an election.

No Democrats systematically take over states through entrenchment and oppress and take away freedoms.