AKA an informed citizen that I would take any day over an ethically challenged MAGA apologist.
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How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?
- Thread starter anotherneil
- Start date
AKA an informed citizen that I would take any day over an ethically challenged MAGA apologist.
PureX
Veteran Member
What freedom do they take away?
My sense is that people will probably tend to go for the lesser of two evils. A lot of people I know dislike Trump and Republicans in general, but they're not too thrilled about the Democrats, either.
I don't really talk much politics with my family either. I avoid political discussions which may crop up at work, too. My father was a conservative Republican, and much of his side of the family are/were Republican, mostly scattered around the Great Lakes states. My mother's side of the family were mainly liberal Democrats in California. On the Republican side of my family, there were few political discussions and no arguments, since everyone pretty much agreed on everything. They were pretty devoutly religious, so that may have also influenced their way of thinking. On the Democratic side of my family, it was one argument after another, with all Democrats in the room. (My mother and aunt were more liberal than my grandparents who were still Democrats but of an older generation.)
A key point in that movie is that, at the end, Michael Douglas's character asks "I'm the bad guy? How did that happen?" Somehow, in his mind, he was not the bad guy. These people believe themselves to be patriots and saviors of the Republic. Yesterday I was scanning stations on the radio, and I came upon a Christian station where they were talking about Bible prophecy and whether it was the end of days. They thought it might not be the end of the world, but considered that America may come to an end - and they predicted that it could happen within the next presidential term. It wasn't Fox News, just some small radio station, but there are quite a few such stations up and down the dial, including Fox News and other conservative outlets. They don't really have to change the facts as much as get people conditioned to a certain pattern of thinking.
As far as calling someone "informed," I guess that depends. I don't think anyone can consider themselves informed if they only rely on a single source of information, no matter what it is. When it comes to media and news reporting in general, I've always had a somewhat guarded viewpoint regarding the press. I don't just look at what they report, but I also look at how they report it. I also consider what they don't report or what they don't seem to be paying attention to.
I've noticed a general trend where they seem to want to make news stories more riveting to the reader or perhaps more dramatic.
This country's track record regarding migrants has typically been to keep them in a state of legal limbo, where they have the ever-present threat of deportation hanging over their heads. This puts them in a position where they're vulnerable to exploitation and mistreatment. I was reading the other day that Trump was talking about a "mass deportation," which seems ominous. That will definitely provoke a sharp reaction if stuff like that starts happening, both domestically and internationally.
Pogo
Well-Known Member
By what, winning elections and enacting laws that make them more prosperous and protective of their citizens while protecting all of the citizens not just the ones who want to impose their will on others. The only new freedom Republican states seem to want to offer is the right to smoke pot which seems to be doing quite well, though by voter referendum mostly not the actual legislature.
Increasingly, Red States Embrace Marijuana: The Kiplinger Letter
Pogo
Well-Known Member
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Not embarrassed for themselves - embarrassed to be Americans. And for foreigners, embarrassed for America. The Germans have a name for the latter:
- Fremdscham - "shame felt for actions done by someone else; vicarious embarrassment, secondhand embarrassment."
I'd bet that education correlates positively with the right side of the graph (better income, more liberal) and religiosity and porn consumption with the left. Also, odd that West Virginia, South Carolina, Montana, and Missouri are blue in this chart.
It's consistent with the claim that conservatives aren't sufficiently competent voters to represent their own interests, and where they congregate and more Republicans are elected, their quality of living is lower. And if Trump is elected, it will be because of these people. Make you rethink the Civil War and how great a president Lincoln really was or wasn't. America should have been allowed to become two countries. Each half would prefer to not have to deal with their opposites.
I feel like what we did expatriating was seceding from America. We left because we felt that America no longer represented our values and that the conservatives shouldn't be trusted. I would have liked to have done so with half a nation and remained in the part of the country of my birth with which I am compatible, which I would defend if necessary, and for which I would make other sacrifices - the liberal contingent - but that wasn't an option, and I wouldn't do any of that for the others.
And that leaves me conflicted regarding the outcome of the next election. Half of that country deserves what Trump will unleash on them if they have their way. Though my heart is with the liberals, who don't deserve that, part of me wants to see those people come to see what fools they've been and have Trump standing on their necks for their unfaithfulness to their country.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
It won't be embarrassing or shameful, but more like a paralyzing fear. The Democrats ran every scam in the Democrat playbook, including the current KKK style Kangaroo Court, that used to target blacks with dual justice. They threw all that at Trump. For example, Biden took classified data and nothing happens. But like a black man of the south, Trump, who as President could declassify anything, is pursued for the lessor evil, by the dual injustice system of the DEI KKK.
In spite of all their scams, lies, cheats, intimidation, etc., that should have taken down an elephant, Trump is still standing and now it would be his turn. He took all their sucker shots and now they need to stand and take his. This prospect is where the fear comes in. If Trump wins many Democrats in Government will retire rather then suffer the music and take the shot.
But since the Democrats showed and modernized the worse of their historical playbook; DEI KKK inJustice, where one can target and attack people, out of office, at any level, retirement will not save them. While those already retired who participates in scams will have their days in court. Pelosi may have a jury of her peers decide on her insider trading crimes. The Democrats opened that sleazy playbook option. Trump can use that sucker shot, to make it even.
Pogo
Well-Known Member
Well in the Schadenfreude sense, If Trump succeeds in cutting all those wasteful programs, it is going to hurt the people in the Red states that get most of the money that the blue states pay in federal taxes. It is all wasted money that shouldn't be spent on people who don't pay their fair share. /s
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
What a truly bizarre post, and since when is Trump a Christian with Christian values? OTOH, you obviously hate Biden, and yet the likes of Lindsey Graham and John McCain said he was probably the most moral man in the Senate.
Followed up not to long afterward by a head of lettuce, OK, you win on general despicability but I will call absurdity a tie.
Yes I win,there’s no tie.
In other words, they offer policies that actually help the average citizen, and the citizens vote for them. What is the republican response? Lies and disinformation that tries to exploit irrational fears.
I'm not sure what is evil about Biden. The only answers I get are his position on the Israel-Gaza situation. I've heard different things from both sides which don't match the reporting. Biden has limited aid to Israel or set conditions on it, and worked to provide aid directly to Gaza, so the claims that Biden is like Nazis and willing to exterminate the citizens of Gaza is incorrect. It's a no-win situation with citizens being killed on both sides, and Hamas and the Israeli conservatives commiting war crimes in their fight. Trump would outright support Israel no matter what. He would support Russia completely. That will only lead to more global instability.
What's funny as most of my Missouri family are republicans and Christians, they don't go to church. None of the guys talk about God and belief, but the women do quite a bit. They pray, they talk about Jesus, but no church going. I find that kind of interesting. I think the politics and religion are a set of learned beliefs, and the religious stuff is mentioned as a sort of tribal unity ritual. No one knows I'm an atheist except my two biological sisters. They were shocked. But it was no big deal. I'm not sure how my extended family would react.
Falling Down was an anti-hero movie for sure, and I was conflicted with the character, He did some things I agreed with like against the racist shop owner and the gang members, but then I didn't agree with his acts that affected ordinary people, like blowing up the street/bridge. I couldn't relate to the attitude of violence as an answer as I'm more of a pacifist and seek solutions. I think that's a big difference between MAGAs and democrats these days. We see MAGAs angry, and unable to use their emotions to motivate to make good decisions so seek violence, even if it's just threats of violence. It's not what mature individuals do. I do thing they want to destroy America to some degree, one to fulfill some weird Christian prophesy that doesn;t make any sense, and two as a way to break the libs and their tolerance. Social disorder and chaos means having more draconian law, and that is what MAGA seems intent on making happen. Trump is already hiring people that will challenge the results in crucial swing states. They learned what not to do in 2020, If Trump loses the election won't be over. And who knows what they have planned.
Yeah, it's troubling. I read reporting on certain issues and it often is way to short. I think the online sources are short due to attention span issues. I do listen to certain podcasts for more in depth explanation of issues. I do like conservatives like the Bulwark folks. Even though I'm a pretty far left liberal I don't like liberal poscasts very much as they do seem to color the issues and sound whiny. The conservatives do seem more focused on criticism of Trump and MAGAs from a functional and practical perspective.
I have to think Trump is bluffing with the whole deportation thing. The manpower doesn't exist. The camps to organize them don't exist. The cost would be massive. The negative impact on the economy would happen immediately. Venezuela won't accept them, so where to they go?
I think the only long term solution would be a joint plan with Mexico to develop economic regions where Spanish speaking people can find a better life. And have an agreement where seasonal workers can enter the USA, do work, and then go back to Mexico. As we see, nothing will hapven as long as Trump directs republicans to not cooperate with Biden. I doubt Trump will have any solutions if he wins. I predict a harsh response like he did in the 2018-19, breaking domestic and international laws along the way. If Biden wins and democrats take the House and Senate I'll bet there will be a strong effort to create a new plan that will help solve the crisis.
The loss of forbearance between the parties began when Gingrich and the Republicans had Clinton impeached. When asked why he chose impeachment over censure, Gingrich's answer was, "Because we could." It's taken the Democrats decades to understand that the Republicans are not their colleagues or the loyal opposition anymore, but enemies of America, it's Constitution, and its founding principles. Republicans have assaulted the rule of law, church-state separation and democracy itself. It's high time that the Democrats viewed them as the enemy and treated them as such.
Things seemed to have changed most dramatically around the time of the J6 committee, when Raskin's tenor seemed to change. Pelosi also became tougher in her words and deeds. The way she handled McCarthy when the committee was being formed was like he was an enemy.
Trump is bloated and confused. He will likely lose this election (don't trust the polls) and his remaining life will be that of a defendant and prisoner, but his authoritarianism will live on. The danger is that the American electorate is easily manipulated by conservative indoctrination media and will likely elect a classier and more subtle wannabe dictator who has been shown by Trump where the soft underbelly of democracy lies and how to gut it.
Exactly the kind of people I was just writing about. They vote against their own interests. They hate the liberals who carry them economically and just about everybody else that doesn't look like them.
Usually, but occasionally, one of them says the quiet part out loud: "People are sick and tired of a feckless, useless Republican Party." - Marjorie Taylor Greene.
And the irony about Gingrich is that soon after he was embroiled in his own ethics scandal and was tossed out of congress, and meanwhile Bill Clinton carried on with high approal ratings. But Gingrich did set the standard model of non-cooperation with democrats that has become an essential axiom for MAGA. The net result is a congress that has been the least effective in history.
118th Congress on track to become one of the least productive in US history
A divided Congress and other issues have led to the lowest number of bills passed in the first year of a congressional session in history, experts said.
We Never Know
No Slack
IMO how can they not be embarrassed if they don't beat a convicted felon who has also been found liable for sexual abuse.
Pogo
Well-Known Member
For those of us who vote for Biden, we will only be embarrassed for our country when dealing with others, for those who don't vote for reason, one hopes they will realize that they should be embarrassed. MAGAts have already demonstrated they are incapable of shame and so no hope for embarrassment either.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
So, IYO, who should be more embarrassed. The Patriotic American Democrats who vote for President Biden and yet fail to have him reinstated as POTUS? Or the uninformed and willfully misinformed Republican voters, who cheer on their hateful and anti-American dictator wanna-be felon for the role of POTUS, just because they get all squirmy about morality, the US Constitution, and the rule of law when the Democrats represent these ideals?
We Never Know
No Slack
Both
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
[/QUOTE]
Best single political quote from RF in the last 8 years. Kudos @It Aint Necessarily So
The remainder of your post is also well worth "Quoting for Truth" (QFT).
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Just look at the state freedom index and peruse the list.