How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

[anotherneil]

How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

 

[libre]

What is the point of the thread?
Trying to bolster support for Trump by suggesting his victory would make the Democrats feel bad?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

Well, it is in a sense pointless a question, so I miss another possible answer as for in effect don't consider the question relevant.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What is the point of the thread?
Trying to bolster support for Trump by suggesting his victory would make the Democrats feel bad?

^this

The childish poll question does, however, highlight a couple of sad truths:

1. The eagerness to vote for a narcissistic, chauvinistic, and misogynistic compulsive liar demonstrated by some is, indeed, both shameful and dangerous.
2. That many such voters would rejoice in the thought that such a victory for totalitarianism might embarrass those defeated says much about the juvenile wing of the MAGA cohort.

 

[tytlyf]

Why would Biden and supporters be embarrassed?
The embarrassing part would be people that voted for a known fraudster and felon.
It's the voters that are the problem. Easily manipulated with words

 

[Stevicus]

How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

They should be even more embarrassed and ashamed now than they were back in 2016. In 2016, they might have had some plausible deniability for being out of touch. Maybe they spent too much time in Hollywood hot tubs and Ivy League cocktail parties to really notice just how bad things were getting in large sections of America. Maybe they just didn't notice. But 2016 should have been a wake up call. They should have realized "Hey, we're doing a bad job here. We need to start doing better and getting back to the basics, like how it was when FDR was President."

But instead of doing that, they just doubled down on their Reaganite dogma, refused to learn from their mistakes, and blamed their defeat on "evil spirits" (or Russian trolls or whatever other boogieman they've invented in their minds). They've been grasping at straws and falling all over themselves just to avoid admitting that they made a horrible mistake in going along with the Reagan globalist and militarist agenda. There are even Republicans who are ostensibly still worshipers in the Church of St. Wrinklemeat, yet virulently hate Trump. Yet, Trump's rise would never have been possible without Reagan.

Trump has always been a blowhard. He's full of crap. During the 80s, he was comparable to the fictional Gordon Gekko who said "Greed is good." This is the Trump dogma, which is the same as the Reagan dogma - and Democrats have willingly embraced it as well. This is the reason we don't have socialized healthcare. This is the reason we don't have price controls to curb inflation. This is the reason we continue to have supply chain problems due to excessive and unnecessary outsourcing to countries like China which are rivals and potentially hostile to American interests. Heck, the Democrats can't even bring themselves to do something as innocuous as legalizing marijuana - all because "Reagan would not approve" (or at least, that's the only possible reason I can discern as to why they do what they do).

Whenever I read or talk to Democrats nowadays, it reminds me of what it was like arguing with Reaganites back in the 1980s. They use the same talking points, the same values. Or even when NAFTA was passed back in the 90s, the Reagan Republicans were unanimously for it, whereas the Democrats were sharply divided, with many sticking to their guns and refusing to go along with it. But they're all gone now. They don't exist in the Democratic Party anymore (or if they do, they're totally subdued and castrated).

If they lose hearts and minds, it's because they've totally debased themselves and subjugated themselves to becoming corporate lackeys. They're not the party of FDR or JFK anymore. They have gone astray. That's what they should be ashamed and embarrassed about, no matter if they win or lose this November.

If they win, it's because their opponent is such a disgusting, vile POS who is a convicted criminal. Anyone of marginal ability should be able to win an election so utterly repulsive. It would be like the New York Yankees defeating a Little League team. Not much to celebrate or be proud of, even in victory.

But if they lose, that would be such an ignominious defeat.

 

[fantome profane]

Embarrassment would be the least of our problems if convicted felon Donald Trump were elected in November. Trump would abuse the power of the Presidency to protect himself and his allies from justice and to prosecute his political enemies. He would sign legislation to take away reproductive rights, to take away human rights (particularly for the lgbtq). He would roll back what little environmental protections there currently are and give huge subsidies to fossil fuel companies while doing everything he can to inhibit the development of green alternatives. He would continue his efforts to subvert democracy in the U.S. and around the world.


The truth is that anyone who does not do everything they can to prevent Trump from being elected in November should be ashamed.

 

[Pogo]

They should be even more embarrassed and ashamed now than they were back in 2016. In 2016, they might have had some plausible deniability for being out of touch. Maybe they spent too much time in Hollywood hot tubs and Ivy League cocktail parties to really notice just how bad things were getting in large sections of America. Maybe they just didn't notice. But 2016 should have been a wake up call. They should have realized "Hey, we're doing a bad job here. We need to start doing better and getting back to the basics, like how it was when FDR was President."

But instead of doing that, they just doubled down on their Reaganite dogma, refused to learn from their mistakes, and blamed their defeat on "evil spirits" (or Russian trolls or whatever other boogieman they've invented in their minds). They've been grasping at straws and falling all over themselves just to avoid admitting that they made a horrible mistake in going along with the Reagan globalist and militarist agenda. There are even Republicans who are ostensibly still worshipers in the Church of St. Wrinklemeat, yet virulently hate Trump. Yet, Trump's rise would never have been possible without Reagan.

Trump has always been a blowhard. He's full of crap. During the 80s, he was comparable to the fictional Gordon Gekko who said "Greed is good." This is the Trump dogma, which is the same as the Reagan dogma - and Democrats have willingly embraced it as well. This is the reason we don't have socialized healthcare. This is the reason we don't have price controls to curb inflation. This is the reason we continue to have supply chain problems due to excessive and unnecessary outsourcing to countries like China which are rivals and potentially hostile to American interests. Heck, the Democrats can't even bring themselves to do something as innocuous as legalizing marijuana - all because "Reagan would not approve" (or at least, that's the only possible reason I can discern as to why they do what they do).

Whenever I read or talk to Democrats nowadays, it reminds me of what it was like arguing with Reaganites back in the 1980s. They use the same talking points, the same values. Or even when NAFTA was passed back in the 90s, the Reagan Republicans were unanimously for it, whereas the Democrats were sharply divided, with many sticking to their guns and refusing to go along with it. But they're all gone now. They don't exist in the Democratic Party anymore (or if they do, they're totally subdued and castrated).

If they lose hearts and minds, it's because they've totally debased themselves and subjugated themselves to becoming corporate lackeys. They're not the party of FDR or JFK anymore. They have gone astray. That's what they should be ashamed and embarrassed about, no matter if they win or lose this November.

If they win, it's because their opponent is such a disgusting, vile POS who is a convicted criminal. Anyone of marginal ability should be able to win an election so utterly repulsive. It would be like the New York Yankees defeating a Little League team. Not much to celebrate or be proud of, even in victory.

But if they lose, that would be such an ignominious defeat.

Huh, I don't think I know any Democrats that have converted to Reaganism though I will admit that the struggle against it has required more than an acceptable amount of compromise.
The problem is an ignorant electorate that is too easily swayed by propaganda.

 

[Stevicus]

Huh, I don't think I know any Democrats that have converted to Reaganism though I will admit that the struggle against it has required more than an acceptable amount of compromise.
The problem is an ignorant electorate that is too easily swayed by propaganda.

Well, it's not as if they had some great conversion ceremony. I think it was largely driven by the fact that they were so heavily trounced three election cycles in a row that they somehow felt the need to move further right and use tactics that would lure enough Reaganites away to be able to win elections.

They had a winning strategy all through the 1930s through the 1960s, but then, they just started to flatten out, for a variety of reasons. For one, they lost the South to the Republicans, which employed their Southern Strategy. From 1968-1992, a 24 year period, the Republicans held the White House for 20 years to the Democrats' 4. Even though they had the public on their side - the enthusiasm and zeal of the Civil Rights movement, the anti-war cause, women's liberation, and a general trend towards environmentalism and public activism at all levels, the Democrats just seemed to go limp after a certain point. They lost the initiative; they lost their fire. I could see this and observed it quite frequently during the 1980s and 90s, when Democrats became more and more of a disappointment. People who I once thought were Democrats and liberals, who fought the good fight once upon a time - many of them just suddenly turned.

I'm not saying they became total converts, as there were some issues they didn't align with Reagan on (usually involving the Moral Majority and their agenda). The Reagan Democrats were never that comfortable with the Moral Majority anyway, but their support of Reagan's economic, law enforcement, and geopolitical agenda outweighed whatever misgivings they might have had about the religious right. The fact is, they did jump into bed with those people and didn't think it would be a problem. They were wrong.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How embarrassed and shameful would Biden and the Democrats be if a felon beat them in the election for POTUS?

Looks like it can go in that direction.

Of course I can surmise there are already a lot of felons already in government who just are not caught or are being shielded from prosecution by their buddies who are in the 'club'.

 

[Pogo]

Well, it's not as if they had some great conversion ceremony. I think it was largely driven by the fact that they were so heavily trounced three election cycles in a row that they somehow felt the need to move further right and use tactics that would lure enough Reaganites away to be able to win elections.

They had a winning strategy all through the 1930s through the 1960s, but then, they just started to flatten out, for a variety of reasons. For one, they lost the South to the Republicans, which employed their Southern Strategy. From 1968-1992, a 24 year period, the Republicans held the White House for 20 years to the Democrats' 4. Even though they had the public on their side - the enthusiasm and zeal of the Civil Rights movement, the anti-war cause, women's liberation, and a general trend towards environmentalism and public activism at all levels, the Democrats just seemed to go limp after a certain point. They lost the initiative; they lost their fire. I could see this and observed it quite frequently during the 1980s and 90s, when Democrats became more and more of a disappointment. People who I once thought were Democrats and liberals, who fought the good fight once upon a time - many of them just suddenly turned.

I'm not saying they became total converts, as there were some issues they didn't align with Reagan on (usually involving the Moral Majority and their agenda). The Reagan Democrats were never that comfortable with the Moral Majority anyway, but their support of Reagan's economic, law enforcement, and geopolitical agenda outweighed whatever misgivings they might have had about the religious right. The fact is, they did jump into bed with those people and didn't think it would be a problem. They were wrong.

Ok, I'll agree that the democratic party has shifted right to account for their string of losses, I don't think the heart has changed but as with the current cycle the problem is in figuring out how to get the electorate to vote in their own best interests instead of this gift to the rich economics that has brought us to our deficit problem and the cultural fear of loss of power by various groups who selfishly think only of themselves and how good they "remember" it being.
Yes we need another FDR or JFK charismatic to bring a focus. Carter got beat by OPEC and our sense of entitlement that had led to our loss of focus on industrial progress, Clinton was a necessary appeaser and Obama was black which was a great rallying cry for the fear-mongers and their propaganda. Biden is a good caretaker and needed after trump.

It is not just our problem though demagoguery is powerful to persons who feel ignored and seems an easy solution to those who have become complaisant and once demagogues are in power, they are hard to remove.

Whatever the line is that a lie can travel a mile while the truth is getting its boots on it too true.

I think we ultimately agree, we just were looking at different facets.

 

[Pogo]

Looks like it can go in that direction.

Of course I can surmise there are already a lot of felons already in government who just are not caught or are being shielded from prosecution by their buddies who are in the 'club'.

So what is one more?
What a self defeating attitude.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Embarrassment would be the least of our problems if convicted felon Donald Trump were elected in November. Trump would abuse the power of the Presidency to protect himself and his allies from justice and to prosecute his political enemies. He would sign legislation to take away reproductive rights, to take away human rights (particularly for the lgbtq). He would roll back what little environmental protections there currently are and give huge subsidies to fossil fuel companies while doing everything he can to inhibit the development of green alternatives. He would continue his efforts to subvert democracy in the U.S. and around the world.


The truth is that anyone who does not do everything they can to prevent Trump from being elected in November should be ashamed.

Voting for Biden is equally a disaster in the making. I'd prefer a third or fourth party contender to break this duopoly that is clearly taking this nation down.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So what is one more?
What a self defeating attitude.

Depends on what they do. Not what they are.

 

[Pogo]

Depends on what they do. Not what they are.

So why did you bring it up?

 

[Twilight Hue]

So why did you bring it up?

Probably because there might be a response and I was not disappointed.

 

[Pogo]

Probably because there might be a response and I was not disappointed.

Got ya, whataboutism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Got ya, whataboutism.

Funny. I was thinking the same thing in kind.

What are the odds?

 

[Pogo]

Funny. I was thinking the same thing in kind.

What are the odds?

I guess you realize what you were doing too, so pretty good.
Now think about the fact it is not a good argument.

Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense of the original accusation.

From a logical and argumentative point of view, whataboutism is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]

 

[Twilight Hue]

I guess you realize what you were doing too, so pretty good.
Now think about the fact it is not a good argument.

Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense of the original accusation.

From a logical and argumentative point of view, whataboutism is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]

Well actually I was just stating the facts as they stand.