How low can they go?

[stvdv]

Source? I can't just take you at your word.

Well I did make a backup at the time (have it stored in my cupboard, but it's fine if you don't believe me

I know I speak truth, as Sai Baba asks of us 1 thing "never lie"

You really think I would throw my good fortune with Baba away over such a worldly thing? I would be a fool

 

[stvdv]

y wife is a fairly healthy military veteran like me. She was hospitalized for 4 weeks. And was hypoxic (Low Oxy, turning blue) at many points

Yes, I remember you wrote about it. That was indeed really bad Covid she had. I got it bad, but didn't turn blue, but I did have breathing trouble and heart also if I recall correctly, but God must have taken the edge off for me, as my health is miserable at 46kg with 6feet3 tall

So, your wife had no overweight I guess, just a healthy 70 kg or so (unless she is really tall or petite), and in good shape from the army (army keeps people usually in good shape).

I hope she recovered well now. I forgot...did you get it also?

I had to speak with the hospital to make her death arrangements, before she ever started to heal

Wow, intense experience

So they seem to be different afaict.

Yes, I think the average health in Holland is much better than in USA, because USA has quite a few percentage higher obese number. And much more work related stress I think, seeing the number of hours Americans work compared to here (here ca. 40h/week, I got the impression USA average is quite a bit higher)

 

[stvdv]

afaict

Nice abbreviation

 

[Truth in love]

Do you have first of a politics first priority for the CDC? Or is it just someone else's talking points?

I'm guessing your asking about first hand knowledge. Not personally, but I've been tracking their actions for several years and it sure looks like lives are not the priority.

 

[Truth in love]

What you should see is the ever popular if you don't agree with ...

(a) It shall constitute unprofessional conduct for a physician and surgeon to disseminate misinformation or disinformation related to COVID-19, including false or misleading information regarding the nature and risks of the virus, its prevention and treatment; and the development, safety, and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines. [ source ]​

... there's something wrong with you mindset.

Whose defining what is misinformation?

Will doctors who proscribed medications approved for many things, but not covid and save lives be punished for it?

 

[Truth in love]

"You're", not "your." It's not a good start.

Yea well when people don't have a point they go digging.

 

[wellwisher]

California passes bill to punish doctors who dissent from government-approved COVID-19 narrative


So if I read this correctly Calf wants to make it illegal to put your patients ahead of the government mandated talking points.

Thoughts on this lasting a review by a federal appeals judge?

Isn't that a good example of Fascism?

Dictionary Definition: Fascism

A governmental system; led by a dictator; having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry and commerce, and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism; and often racism.

Fill in the blanks Definition:

A governmental system; (CDC) led by a dictator; Fauci and Newsom) having complete power (above the law), forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, (censorship, Law and Punishment) regimenting all industry and commerce, (EPA, Green Energy and now COVID) and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism; (Swamp) and often racism (white guilt/privilege and quota system).

Textbook example of Fascism building on its base principles.

 

[The Hammer]

Whose defining what is misinformation?

Will doctors who proscribed medications approved for many things, but not covid and save lives be punished for it?

I hope so.

 

[Polymath257]

So when the CDC and others put politics first what does the doctor do?

Funny that it is only the politicians saying that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So your questioning my intelligence?

If you think that politics has more value in medical decisions than science -- well, yes, then I would certainly question your intelligence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Whose defining what is misinformation?

Will doctors who proscribed medications approved for many things, but not covid and save lives be punished for it?

Wouldn't be the first time (because they often don't save lives or have statistical clinic significance to support their use, complete with a chance of a pharma rep being the only reason it got prescribed for something off label).
And with covid, only those with welded on blinders will focus on a handful outlier and bad research papers will ignoring the mountain of consistent evidence the world has produced.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Will doctors who proscribed medications approved for many things, but not covid and save lives be punished for it?

What on earth are you talking about?

Never mind, but ...

... out of curiosity (or, in this case, just for laughs) how would you curate credible information? ​

 

[Secret Chief]

Yea well when people don't have a point they go digging.

Didn't really have to dig.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Whose defining what is misinformation?

Will doctors who proscribed medications approved for many things, but not covid and save lives be punished for it?

This is all right there, in the text of the bill:


"SECTION 1.
The Legislature finds and declares all of the following:
(a) The global spread of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, or COVID-19, has claimed the lives of over 6,000,000 people worldwide, including nearly 90,000 Californians.
(b) Data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that unvaccinated individuals are at a risk of dying from COVID-19 that is 11 times greater than those who are fully vaccinated.
(c) The safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines have been confirmed through evaluation by the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the vaccines continue to undergo intensive safety monitoring by the CDC.
(d) The spread of misinformation and disinformation about COVID-19 vaccines has weakened public confidence and placed lives at serious risk.
(e) Major news outlets have reported that some of the most dangerous propagators of inaccurate information regarding the COVID-19 vaccines are licensed health care professionals.
(f) The Federation of State Medical Boards has released a statement warning that physicians who engage in the dissemination of COVID-19 vaccine misinformation or disinformation risk losing their medical license, and that physicians have a duty to provide their patients with accurate, science-based information.
(g) In House Resolution No. 74 of the 2021–22 Regular Session, the California State Assembly declared health misinformation to be a public health crisis, and urged the State of California to commit to appropriately combating health misinformation and curbing the spread of falsehoods that threaten the health and safety of Californians.
SEC. 2.
Section 2270 is added to the Business and Professions Code, to read:


2270.
(a) It shall constitute unprofessional conduct for a physician and surgeon to disseminate misinformation or disinformation related to COVID-19, including false or misleading information regarding the nature and risks of the virus, its prevention and treatment; and the development, safety, and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.
(b) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) “Board” means the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California, as applicable.
(2) “Disinformation” means misinformation that the licensee deliberately disseminated with malicious intent or an intent to mislead.
(3) “Disseminate” means the conveyance of information from the licensee to a patient under the licensee’s care in the form of treatment or advice.
(4) “Misinformation” means false information that is contradicted by contemporary scientific consensus to an extent where its dissemination constitutes gross negligence by the licensee. contrary to the standard of care.
(5) “Physician and surgeon” means a person licensed by the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California under Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 2000).
(c) Section 2314 shall not apply to this section.


SEC. 3.
The provisions of this act are severable. If any provision of this act or its application is held invalid, that invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Isn't that a good example of Fascism?

Dictionary Definition: Fascism

A governmental system; led by a dictator; having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry and commerce, and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism; and often racism.

Fill in the blanks Definition:

A governmental system; (CDC) led by a dictator; Fauci and Newsom) having complete power (above the law), forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, (censorship, Law and Punishment) regimenting all industry and commerce, (EPA, Green Energy and now COVID) and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism; (Swamp) and often racism (white guilt/privilege and quota system).

Textbook example of Fascism building on its base principles.

No. It's a good example of how medicine has worked for a long time now. Doctors have always been regulated by state and federal medical boards. This is nothing new. And it ain't fascism.

 

[Polymath257]

I see the every popular if I don't agree with you there something wrong with you mind set.

Why not engage with the topic?

The topic: if medical doctors spread misinformation, they should be disciplined. Potentially, they could have their license to practice removed.

This doesn't only apply to covid. It does (and should) apply to ALL medical information.

And, of course, it is the medical boards that determine what is and what is not misinformation. Again, as it should be.

Why this is controversial at all is beyond me.

 

[Polymath257]

That it's a killer like the plaque was.

Nobody said it killed at the same level as the bubonic plague did. Nobody.

It doesn't even kill at the level of the Spanish flu. But that doesn't mean it isn't deadly or that public health measures are unnecessary.

In Holland not so many died of it, so they added all the 16000 death of ordinary flue to Corona to up the Corona numbers

They thought the Dutch were too "stupid" to notice this on the special Dutch "WHO" equivalent site. But I didn't miss it, as I always first check the official site

The next year they corrected it. Such stunts did have some impact on the trustworthiness of WHO etc. as you probably can imagines, and it was not the only blunder I discovered (one of the many blunders and inconveniences...or maybe done on purpose to check how far they can go, before people revolt)

Blunders are made when a new disease comes out of nowhere. Early estimates will often be wrong. That isn't some conspiracy; it is merely attempting to deal with a new disease and trying to figure out how it works.

Were mistakes made at first? Absolutely. Were initial guesses about this virus often wrong? Absolutely.

Have many people died from this virus? Absolutely. Could some of those people have been saved if people did basic safety measures like masking, social distancing, and taking vaccines when available?

Absolutely.

Should governments mandate such safety measures? Absolutely.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is all right there, in the text of the bill:


"SECTION 1.
The Legislature finds and declares all of the following:
(a) The global spread of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, or COVID-19, has claimed the lives of over 6,000,000 people worldwide, including nearly 90,000 Californians.
(b) Data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that unvaccinated individuals are at a risk of dying from COVID-19 that is 11 times greater than those who are fully vaccinated.
(c) The safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines have been confirmed through evaluation by the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the vaccines continue to undergo intensive safety monitoring by the CDC.
(d) The spread of misinformation and disinformation about COVID-19 vaccines has weakened public confidence and placed lives at serious risk.
(e) Major news outlets have reported that some of the most dangerous propagators of inaccurate information regarding the COVID-19 vaccines are licensed health care professionals.
(f) The Federation of State Medical Boards has released a statement warning that physicians who engage in the dissemination of COVID-19 vaccine misinformation or disinformation risk losing their medical license, and that physicians have a duty to provide their patients with accurate, science-based information.
(g) In House Resolution No. 74 of the 2021–22 Regular Session, the California State Assembly declared health misinformation to be a public health crisis, and urged the State of California to commit to appropriately combating health misinformation and curbing the spread of falsehoods that threaten the health and safety of Californians.
SEC. 2.
Section 2270 is added to the Business and Professions Code, to read:


2270.
(a) It shall constitute unprofessional conduct for a physician and surgeon to disseminate misinformation or disinformation related to COVID-19, including false or misleading information regarding the nature and risks of the virus, its prevention and treatment; and the development, safety, and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.
(b) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) “Board” means the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California, as applicable.
(2) “Disinformation” means misinformation that the licensee deliberately disseminated with malicious intent or an intent to mislead.
(3) “Disseminate” means the conveyance of information from the licensee to a patient under the licensee’s care in the form of treatment or advice.
(4) “Misinformation” means false information that is contradicted by contemporary scientific consensus to an extent where its dissemination constitutes gross negligence by the licensee. contrary to the standard of care.
(5) “Physician and surgeon” means a person licensed by the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California under Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 2000).
(c) Section 2314 shall not apply to this section.


SEC. 3.
The provisions of this act are severable. If any provision of this act or its application is held invalid, that invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application."

Just so we're clear, exactly what is it you object to?

• Requiring doctors to meet an established standard of care?
• Just the standards of care that you personally disagree with?
• The medical profession having established standards of care at all?
• Licensing of doctors generally?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Just so we're clear, exactly what is it you object to?

• Requiring doctors to meet an established standard of care?
• Just the standards of care that you personally disagree with?
• The medical profession having established standards of care at all?
• Licensing of doctors generally?

I object to none of it.

I provided the wording of the bill to a person who seemingly couldn't be bothered to read it over him/herself. Probably for nothing too, because I'm fairly certain said poster has me on ignore.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I object to none of it.

I provided the wording of the bill to a person who seemingly couldn't be bothered to read it over him/herself. Probably for nothing too, because I'm fairly certain said poster has me on ignore.

Sorry - I misread who I was responding to.