How Much Do You Doubt God's Existence?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

unless you can categorically prove events that happened billions of years ago.

Proof is not the standard for deciding what is true. Correct beyond reasonable doubt is.

And it is correct beyond reasonable doubt that billions of years ago, the universe began expanding, eventually generated the solar system including the earth, which eventually generated life, which then evolved into the tree of life we find today. That is not a controversial position within the scientific community, and nobody else gets a vote including the scientifically literate who happen to agree with the experts. It's settled science and it isn't relevant that creationists disagree.

There are many competing hypotheses.

No, there aren't. You've got creationism and evolution as Darwin outlined it - descent with modification in populations over generations due to genetic variation, genetic inheritance, evolving habitats, scarce resources, and natural selection. That's it.

Red herring.

Creationism is a hypothesis and only a hypothesis whereas evolution is a confirmed former hypothesis.

T of E is a sprawling bunch of hypotheses .. some are confirmed beyond reasonable doubt ....and some are not.

The theory is correct. Every relevant piece of evidence we have supports the theory, and that's been true for over a century-and-a-half.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Proof is not the standard for deciding what is true. Correct beyond reasonable doubt is.

Splitting hairs..

No, there aren't. You've got creationism and evolution as Darwin outlined it..

Nonsense .. Darwin is not God .. neither are things black & white in reality.
You mention 2 extreme views, and dismiss the middle ground, as it doesn't suit your agenda.
i.e. persuasion against faith

The theory is correct. Every relevant piece of evidence we have supports the theory, and that's been true for over a century-and-a-half.

LUCA is NOT 'correct beyond reasonable doubt' .. it is much like big-bang .. a favored hypothesis.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Splitting hairs.

Proof and correct beyond reasonable doubt are distinct concepts. And those that fail to understand the distinction can be expected to go on conflating the two.

You mention 2 extreme views, and dismiss the middle ground

There is no middle ground. There is only naturalism (evolution) and supernaturalism (creationism). If I were wrong, you'd be able to name a third category which is neither of those, but I'm not and you can't. If you still believe otherwise, go ahead and produce this "middle ground." You won't because you can't. These are easy predictions to make.

LUCA is NOT 'correct beyond reasonable doubt'

Yes, it is.

Same answer. When you make a claim, you need to support it. Simply expressing dissent without an attempt at falsification is pointless.

it is much like big-bang

That is also correct beyond reasonable doubt.

With both theories, modifications have been such as punctuated equilibrium to evolution and inflation to the Big Bang, but the core doctrine of both theories have been established in the main beyond reasonable doubt unchanged since the theories were first published. The universe began expanding, cooling, and organizing most of 14 billion years ago, and the LUCA began evolving into the present tree of life over 9 billion years later.

 

[F1fan]

Can't do what???

Why God can’t come forward and make itself known to all people. Atheists want to know what the problem is.

It seems that people lack imagination .. if G-d is not a person, then what is there to "see" ?

Way too much imagination going on in regards to a God. Zero evidence. What critical thinkers can be honest about is not seeing any God anywhere.

It is not "believers" that need to demonstrate anything ..

It is when they refer to their God existing.

It's quite simple .. believers believe .. and disbelievers disbelieve .. and we all reap what we sow.

Yet believers can’t explain how their belief is fact-based and rational. They believe for non-rational reasons.

..in this life, and a "possible" next.
It's easy to claim that you won't experience existence after death, but there is no way to
prove it either way.

Which is why non-believers take life seriously and avoid believing in nonsense life immorality in an afterlife.

..and that's how it is supposed to be. G-d does not play childish games with atheists.

The games are all done by believers.

Life is serious, whether we acknowledge it or not.

Yet believers prefer assuming an implausible framework is true. That’s not very serious to my mind. It’s lazy.

 

[Redneck Mystic]

I believe what you experienced was 100% real but not necessarily reality.

Belief is just that, belief. If you lived in my skin, you would know what I experienced regarding God, angels, demons, ETs was and continues to be as real as hitting your thumb with a hammer is real .

 

[Kenny]

It is pretty easy, even in a fictional account to highlight words being reportedly said by the protagonist.
Even though as fiction no one actually ever said those words.

Just because it is done in the Bible is not really proof of the thing.
This a matter of faith though that God would have prevented these words from being printed if it were not true?

yes… that’s why I don’t trust the Declaration of Independence. Just because it is reportedly written, it is all fictional.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus referred to himself in the third person?

Did you know there are many ways to write what you are saying? Even writing about yourself saying “The one who Jesus loved”.

 

[F1fan]

Belief is just that, belief. If you lived in my skin, you would know what I experienced regarding God, angels, demons, ETs was and continues to be as real as hitting your thumb with a hammer is real .

Explain how you can detect and sense a God, angels, and demons. Do you have special abilities? If not how do you distinguish these as real versus imaginary.

 

[F1fan]

yes… that’s why I don’t trust the Declaration of Independence.

Are you part of the Royal Family that has a long standing grudge against the American declaration for political autonomy?

Just because it is reportedly written, it is all fictional.

How exactly are valid, historical documents that had authority to justify military actions just fictional? Who told you this?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes, it is.

Same answer. When you make a claim, you need to support it.

I'll leave that to you .. you claim that LUCA is a fact .. prove it.

The universe began expanding, cooling, and organizing most of 14 billion years ago, and the LUCA began evolving into the present tree of life over 9 billion years later.

That's nonsense.
You can't prove it .. you just state that it is "beyond reasonable doubt" ..
All that means, is that the majority of specialists in the field believe it to be true.

I could also point out, that the majority of specialists in the field are atheists.
It really doesn't concern me what happened billions of years ago, nor do I find it meaningful.
What I DO find meaningful, is life right now, and what will happen tomorrow.

History and current affairs can provide some insight, but too much "enquiry" can lead to blindness.
i.e. curiousity killed the cat

 

[muhammad_isa]

What critical thinkers can be honest about is not seeing any God anywhere.

Oh well, that's your problem.
You must be looking in the wrong direction.

 

[Kathryn]

Here's one way to look at it:

I believe like this - my thoughts are represented by a small circle on a piece of paper. All the thoughts and ideas of creative geniuses are represented by a larger circle around mine but it still takes of maybe a third of the paper. To me, God is so, so much more than those circles on those pages can represent.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Explain how you can detect and sense a God..

If you don't know, then you are probably approaching things from the wrong perspective.
You won't know G-d, unless you acknowledge the fragility of your soul.

We will all come to know .. better that we know now.

 

[Nakosis]

yes… that’s why I don’t trust the Declaration of Independence. Just because it is reportedly written, it is all fictional.

That's correct. It is a fiction. It is only belief that gives it any power.

 

[Nakosis]

Belief is just that, belief. If you lived in my skin, you would know what I experienced regarding God, angels, demons, ETs was and continues to be as real as hitting your thumb with a hammer is real .

Sure, I've also experience Gods, yes more than one, angels, demons, but no ETs. So yes, I understand the reality of the experience.
I've come to understand more about how our brain operates and how such experiences are possible.

I also know you can be caused to feel your thumb being hit by a hammer while no hammer actually ever touches any part of your hand.

 

[F1fan]

Oh well, that's your problem.
You must be looking in the wrong direction.

What I’m looking at is you being evasive and unable to explain how any of your beliefs and claims are true. So we reject them.

If you don't know, then you are probably approaching things from the wrong perspective.

That’s why I am asking. And still you avoid the opportunity to show non-believers are incorrect in their doubts.

You won't know G-d, unless you acknowledge the fragility of your soul.

That doesn’t explain that a God exists.

We will all come to know .. better that we know now.

And still no explanation. It’s almost as if you are bluffing.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That doesn’t explain that a God exists.

I'm not in the 'business' of showing gods exist ..
It's between G-d and yourself .. our perceived independence is only temporary.

Eventually, we return from whence we came .. we have no control over it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

you claim that LUCA is a fact

I wish you wouldn't be so cavalier about language. You attempt paraphrase me continually but actually change the meaning of my words in the process.

I said that the theory of evolution, which proposes that we all descended from a single ancestral population, is established beyond reasonable doubt. There is a small possibility that life on earth descended from two different populations.

prove it.

There you go again. Proof isn't relevant in this context. Proof is for mathematical theorems and syllogisms, which are pure, formal reasoning. For empiricism, the standard is compelling (sound) evidenced argument which can be beyond reasonable doubt, but never certain. That's the standard in science and law.

If you keep demanding proof, you will continue to waste your time and continue to be told why you are incorrect to use that word. Is that good enough for you?

You can't prove it .. you just state that it is "beyond reasonable doubt" .. All that means, is that the majority of specialists in the field believe it to be true.

It means more than that. There's reason that they believe what they do.

 

[Nakosis]

Here's one way to look at it:

I believe like this - my thoughts are represented by a small circle on a piece of paper. All the thoughts and ideas of creative geniuses are represented by a larger circle around mine but it still takes of maybe a third of the paper. To me, God is so, so much more than those circles on those pages can represent.

Yes, your conscious awareness is only aware of 5% or less of what is going on in your brain at any given moment. this is like that small circle on a piece of paper. There is a near infinite amount of activity going on inside your that you are unaware of and can't fathom.

It's possible there is a God outside of that, but if there is, I'm not sure what is left for them to do since your brain takes care of everything necessary to support your survival and conscious experience.

 

[F1fan]

I'm not in the 'business' of showing gods exist ..

Smart move, as I can’t think of a business that would be a bigger failure than demonstrating a God exists.

But you can’t even do it as s hobby.

It's between G-d and yourself .. our perceived independence is only temporary.

Absurd claim given I am asking for you to explain how any ordinary mortal can detect a God.

Eventually, we return from whence we came .. we have no control over it.

Organisms come to life for a while and then they die.