How Much Does Marxist Thought, of Any Kind, Influence the Developed World?

[Debater Slayer]

While some people may think that Scandinavian countries are "socialist," they're mixed economies that are primarily capitalist but have strong welfare systems and high taxes. Even China is now a largely capitalist economy, especially since it has some of the world's largest privately held businesses (e.g., Huawei and Tencent).

However, do you think that there are any developed countries today whose economic models are influenced to one extent or another by Marxism or Marxist principles? I'm not talking about adoption of socialism or communism; I'm talking about being influenced by some Marxist principles from any of the various Marxist schools of thought while maintaining a capitalist system.

In other words, how much and in what ways, if any, would you say that the many variants of Marxist thought influence the developed world today? There are indelible Christian influences in many secular governments, even in largely irreligious countries. This is the sort of lingering influence I have in mind when asking this question.

 

[Heyo]

While some people may think that Scandinavian countries are "socialist," they're mixed economies that are primarily capitalist but have strong welfare systems and high taxes. Even China is now a largely capitalist economy, especially since it has some of the world's largest privately held businesses (e.g., Huawei and Tencent).

However, do you think that there are any developed countries today whose economic models are influenced to one extent or another by Marxism or Marxist principles? I'm not talking about adoption of socialism or communism; I'm talking about being influenced by some Marxist principles from any of the various Marxist schools of thought while maintaining a capitalist system.

In other words, how much and in what ways, if any, would you say that the many variants of Marxist thought influence the developed world today? There are indelible Christian influences in many secular governments, even in largely irreligious countries. This is the sort of lingering influence I have in mind when asking this question.

Almost all countries have a VAT (Original "Mehrwert Steuer"). The "Mehrwert" is a Marxist idea, without Marx, we wouldn't have a VAT.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's a great idea for a thread, and in honest discussions this is about how I'd expect it to go considering even Lenin indicated Marx wasn't that big of an influence.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Almost all countries have a VAT (Original "Mehrwert Steuer"). The "Mehrwert" is a Marxist idea, without Marx, we wouldn't have a VAT.

I haven't been able to find anything confirming this. All of the sources I've seen instead trace it back to the 20th century, with no mention of Marx. Do you have evidence that the origin of the VAT is Marxist?

The value-added tax (VAT) is a relatively new tax. It was designed by two people, independently, in the early 20th century. To Wilhelm Von Siemens, a German businessman, the VAT was a way to resolve the cascading problems that arose in implementing gross turnover taxes and sales taxes. To Thomas S. Adams, an American, the VAT was a better version of the corporate income tax.

What is the history of the VAT?

The value-added tax (VAT) is a relatively new tax. It was designed by two people, independently, in the early 20th century. To Wilhelm Von Siemens,...

www.taxpolicycenter.org

VAT is a continental invention. French tax authority apparatchik Maurice Lauré fathered the tax in 1954, although a tax that touched on every stage of the production process was first theorised in Germany a century earlier. VAT took its bow in the UK in November 1974, as part of the price the UK paid for joining the Common Market.

VAT: A brief history of taxation

As VAT is set to rise to 20% we look at how the taxation system has developed through Europe

www.theguardian.com

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's a great idea for a thread, and in honest discussions this is about how I'd expect it to go considering even Lenin indicated Marx wasn't that big of an influence.

I'm sure the world would look different today if Marx hadn't been born when he was, just like it would if Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., hadn't been founded when they were. My question is meant to explore the living legacy of Marxism in an accurate matter, much like the exploration of current Christian influence on Asia or the influence of Greek philosophy on Europe.

 

[Left Coast]

While some people may think that Scandinavian countries are "socialist," they're mixed economies that are primarily capitalist but have strong welfare systems and high taxes. Even China is now a largely capitalist economy, especially since it has some of the world's largest privately held businesses (e.g., Huawei and Tencent).

However, do you think that there are any developed countries today whose economic models are influenced to one extent or another by Marxism or Marxist principles? I'm not talking about adoption of socialism or communism; I'm talking about being influenced by some Marxist principles from any of the various Marxist schools of thought while maintaining a capitalist system.

In other words, how much and in what ways, if any, would you say that the many variants of Marxist thought influence the developed world today? There are indelible Christian influences in many secular governments, even in largely irreligious countries. This is the sort of lingering influence I have in mind when asking this question.

The critical theories that derived from Marx have influenced much of modern thought in the West, particularly on the Left when it comes to issues of gender, race, etc (though also in the more traditional Marxist sense of bourgeosie vs. proletariat). Within these paradigms, society is viewed as essentially a struggle between a class of oppressors and a class of people being oppressed.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The critical theories that derived from Marx have influenced much of modern thought in the West, particularly on the Left when it comes to issues of gender, race, etc. Within these paradigms, society is viewed as essentially a struggle between a class of oppressors and a class of people being oppressed.

Conflict theory is a good answer! In our current time, I think Marxist influence is perhaps seen more in sociology than in economics.

 

[Heyo]

I haven't been able to find anything confirming this. All of the sources I've seen instead trace it back to the 20th century, with no mention of Marx. Do you have evidence that the origin of the VAT is Marxist?

What is the history of the VAT?

The value-added tax (VAT) is a relatively new tax. It was designed by two people, independently, in the early 20th century. To Wilhelm Von Siemens,...

www.taxpolicycenter.org

VAT: A brief history of taxation

As VAT is set to rise to 20% we look at how the taxation system has developed through Europe

www.theguardian.com

It's not the tax that was Marx' idea but the added value. By identifying it as an entity in his analyses of commerce and capitalism "Das Kapital", he made it a potential subject of taxation. And that is not the only thing he analyzed and described. His ideas still get taught in business studies.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's not the tax that was Marx' idea but the added value. By identifying it as an entity in his analyses of commerce and capitalism "Das Kapital", he made it a potential subject of taxation. And that is not the only thing he analyzed and described. His ideas still get taught in business studies.

His analyses remain highly influential, but I would say that has more to do with their descriptive aspects than the prescriptive ones. For the most part, he analyzed capitalism in an insightful, accurate manner, but his prescriptive ideas about communism, abolition of class, and statelessness are largely pipe dreams with no practical evidence to back them up.

 

[Revoltingest]

Almost all countries have a VAT (Original "Mehrwert Steuer"). The "Mehrwert" is a Marxist idea, without Marx, we wouldn't have a VAT.

If an inventor of something had never done so,
someone else would've. He might not have even
been the 1st to think of it...just the 1st to publish.
It's an idea too obvious to think that had such a
tenuous existence.

We're gonna be taxed somehow. Is the VAT best?
I don't know. But our system here sure isn't best.

 

[Heyo]

His analyses remain highly influential, but I would say that has more to do with their descriptive aspects than the prescriptive ones. For the most part, he analyzed capitalism in an insightful, accurate manner, but his prescriptive ideas about communism, abolition of class, and statelessness are largely pipe dreams with no practical evidence to back them up.

100% agree. And his ideas for social change are outdated anyway. They didn't survive the second industrial revolution. We simply don't have a proletariat like in Marx' time any more. (Though the US is on the way to restore that.)

 

[Yerda]

Marx is still taught in sociology and heterodox economics. So not very much.