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How Much of Homer's Illiad is Historical?

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I know they found the city of Troy, which for a long time, many believed to be just a myth. That raises the question, how much of the Illiad is historical? Did any of the characters from the Illiad actually exist? Achilles, Patroclus, Agammemon, Menalus, Hector, etc.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
I think the cyclops, Polyphemus was real...

on a serious note: the Illiad is a "bardic" tale in that it is a spiritual intiation allegorical tale...

like most such tales, it builds upon "fact" and embelishes it...

and yes Troy is in modern Turkey....

12th century author Geoffrey of Monmouth, states in his writings (of a similar style) that the Welsh are from Troy....
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Mr. Cheese since Troy actually exists doesn't that raise questions of how much the epic is historical? To what extent it contains actual history?
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Mr. Cheese since Troy actually exists doesn't that raise questions of how much the epic is historical? To what extent it contains actual history?

If you want to believ that poseidon's son, a cyclops was walkign around ancient greece...thats YOUR choice

Polyphemus (Greek: Πολύφημος, Poluphēmos) is the gigantic one-eyed son of Poseidon and Thoosa in Greek mythology, one of the Cyclopes. His name means "very famous".[1] Polyphemus plays a pivotal role in Homer's Odyssey.

Polyphemus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I know that there was some debate over whether the Illiad and Odyssey were written by the same author(one claim is that greek wasn't used for literary purposes at the time so it must have been passed down verbally first) but I am more interested in the events of Troy. The way public school taught me, they never aknowledged it as myth but as historical fact. Is there any evidence to support that the Battle of Troy actually happened?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Enlightened that's why I'm asking is some level of the Illiad historical? There obviously was a Troy. Did some of the characters in the Illiad also exist? The kings, princes, nobles, heroes, or villians like King Priam and Hector?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Interestingly enough the Roman poet Virgil also was of the belief that the Romans were descendents of Troy.
 
Historically, I know absolutely nothing about most of the characters portrayed in the Illiad but if you would like I can see how much information I can gather. I will cite my resources for you too.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Well the Illiad speaks of Agammemnon the King, Oddyseus the ruler of Ithica, Menalus a prince under Agammemnon, Achilles the legendary hero. Hector the Trojan side's hero. King Priam the ruler of Troy. Seeing as Troy existed, I wonder if any of these people did as well?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yes Quagmire, and the Oddysey probably is mostly fiction. It's been shown that the Oddysey probably isn't even originally a Homeric work. It's style is much different then the Illiad's, not to mention it is irrelevent to the conversation, since I am speaking of how the Illiad mentions the Trojan War, and we have discovered a ruined Troy under the sea.
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
Yes Quagmire, and the Oddysey probably is mostly fiction. It's been shown that the Oddysey probably isn't even originally a Homeric work. It's style is much different then the Illiad's, not to mention it is irrelevent to the conversation, since I am speaking of how the Illiad mentions the Trojan War, and we have discovered a ruined Troy under the sea.

The Iliad and The Odyssey are examples of Oral Poetry. They were sung by poets long before the written word was used to copy down stories, therefore it's almost impossible to know whether or not, infact, the two were composed (not just written down) by the same person, though there is much debate on the subject.

As for Historical Insights found in the Iliad, they have led archaeologists to determine an actual site which may have been the city of Troy. I may be not remembering my class in Heroic Epics properly, but if I am, I believe that it is also widely thought that King Priam was an historical person. If I remember correctly, a list of kings, appearing to date to some time after the fall of Troy is believed to be, was found, and the name of King Priam was found on this list.

Sources: Again, University class in Heroic Epics in Greece and Rome. As I said, I may not be remembering correctly, but I think I am. I'll check my text book when I find it.

As for other historical insights dealing with the Iliad, I'm not sure there are any.

EDIT: Also, it's believed that there was, infact, a war around the time of Trojan war, but that Homer's account of it in the Iliad is highly fictionalized.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Are the people on the Achean side also fictionalized circle one? Meaning they didn't literally exist? Agammemnon, Achilles, etc.?
 
To put things in perspective: we're not even sure Homer actually existed. :p
Noooooooooooo!!! I can't lose him!!!

Circle_One:
Do you know around what century that they were written? I've found sources stating when it was, but they blur the line between verbal and written composition and I can't get a consistent answer.
 
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