How Neoliberal Economists have Cost You Money and Wealth

[Sunstone]

Nick Hanauer exposes the lies of neoliberal economists and proposes an alternative economic model.

The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward

 

[Nakosis]

Nick Hanauer exposes the lies of neoliberal economists and proposes an alternative economic model.

The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward

How have the neoliberals economists cost me?

As I see it, it's my skills, the values I create via my abilities which allow me to ask for proper compensation for my time.


Self interest does not equal greed. To equate capitalism with greed is a complete misrepresentation of capitalism. Self interest can include cooperation, tending the economic garden as it was put. Greed is detrimental to capitalism.

One guy who was himself greedy, made a lot of money being greedy is now going to lecture us about being greedy. Ok, if he saw capitalism as a system of greed, that was his mistake.

The problem of a minimum wage is not it's effect on the economy. The problem is it's effect on the individual. As people rely more and more on the government to take care of them they lose the skill to set there own value. As inflation continues they will be stuck waiting for the government to decide their value for them. The government replaces the cooperation in deciding their worth. What's gained?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem of a minimum wage is not it's effect on the economy. The problem is it's effect on the individual. As people rely more and more on the government to take care of them they lose the skill to set there own value. As inflation continues they will be stuck waiting for the government to decide their value for them. The government replaces the cooperation in deciding their worth. What's gained?

What do you think caused numerous companies to increase their own wages above state and federal limits?

 

[Nakosis]

What do you think caused numerous companies to increase their own wages above state and federal limits?

The desire to keep their employees.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The desire to keep their employees.

Where would they go?

 

[Nakosis]

Where would they go?

Somewhere willing to pay more. It costs a lot of money for a company to train workers. Cheaper to increase wages to keep the ones you got. A CEO who doesn't understand this will end up regretting it. It is in the company's mutual interests to keep their workers happy.

 

[Nakosis]

You have the perfect attitude for a natural-born, life-long subordinate. I hope you love being exploited, because that's going to be your fate. But you are in good company -- most people, like you, are incapable of unlearning what they have been taught. You yourself probably don't even realize your ideas are not your own.

Hope you enjoy your strawman.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Somewhere willing to pay more. It costs a lot of money for a company to train workers. Cheaper to increase wages to keep the ones you got. A CEO who doesn't understand this will end up regretting it. It is in the company's mutual interests to keep their workers happy.

Where are they going to go if they aren't happy? Another low paying position where they'll be unhappy?

 

[Nakosis]

All neoliberal theory. Nothing of what you say is backed by practice. All words, all theory.

Nothing but experience. But hey, feel free to take some academic's word on it.

 

[Nakosis]

Where are they going to go if they aren't happy? Another low paying position where they'll be unhappy?

Probably, since public school don't teach self interest well. It's certainly not in their self interest to. So why would they? Probably because they've been taught to let others look out for them.

A good employer will look out for the interest of their employees, a bad one won't. Ideally they will keep looking for one who does. Since they don't, bad employers can keep doing what they do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

bad employers can keep doing what they do.

They have been doing that long before minimum wage and labor laws.

 

[Nakosis]

Oh! So you're one of those guys who knows more than the people who spend 20 or 40 years actually studying it. Got it. Bet you know the best way to perform open-heart surgery, launch a moon rocket, invent a new drug, and argue a legal case, too.

Those who can, do. Those who can't teach.

Never did any of that other stuff, so really couldn't offer an opinion one way or the other. Though certainly I'd be more likely to listen to someone who actually launched a rocket than someone who's only taught the physics of rocketry. Otherwise anyone could pickup a book and start launching rockets successfully. Even with all the academic knowledge one still needs experience to be successful. See it all of the time, engineers right out of school thinking they can fix all of the problems. Very little of that academic knowledge is useful. It's good for a foundations to build on, but nothing beets experience.

 

[Nakosis]

They have been doing that long before minimum wage and labor laws.

And folks have been letting them.

I blame public education. Unfortunately most successful people are left to learn success for their successful parents. I mean what is wrong with a education system that can't teach people to be successful?

 

[Phaedrus]

I am understandably leery of the type of success achieved via the foundation of a monetary system that first requires a particular socio-economic status only reached through a particular capitalistic standard. In other words, you have to be rich and successful in order to be rich and successful, considering the American Dream is nothing more than an unattainable dream for most everyone except the few who get lucky. Statistics, after all, show that most people who work all their lives never rise above their socio-economic status. The capitalist saying work hard and you will become successful is just another lie for the rich to stay rich while the poor remain poor.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And folks have been letting them

Not always. People did riot against it, unions have formed, but many people take a job or they don't eat or feed their family.

I mean what is wrong with a education system that can't teach people to be successful?

Probably because "success" is not defined the same to everyone. I'm not a success with capitalism, but for my struggles and having came from nothing and no support I've been pretty successful in getting things and achieving goals. Who's success do we teach?

 

[Sunstone]

Those who can, do. Those who can't teach.

Never did any of that other stuff, so really couldn't offer an opinion one way or the other. Though certainly I'd be more likely to listen to someone who actually launched a rocket than someone who's only taught the physics of rocketry. Otherwise anyone could pickup a book and start launching rockets successfully. Even with all the academic knowledge one still needs experience to be successful. See it all of the time, engineers right out of school thinking they can fix all of the problems. Very little of that academic knowledge is useful. It's good for a foundations to build on, but nothing beets experience.

If you know so much, why are you parroting other people? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this issue?

 

[Revoltingest]

....the American Dream is nothing more than an unattainable dream for most everyone except the few who get lucky.

I'm reminded of Louis Pasteur's observation...
Chance favors the prepared mind.
IOW, luck plays a role in success, but ability & drive are important factors too.

 

[Sunstone]

I notice that both here and on other sites, people attacking Hanaeur's position are doing so with insipid, abstract observations -- not with hard facts. Lot's of crap about how this or that is theoretically true -- not much at all that's genuinely factual.

It's Seattle all over again. The neoliberals saying that raising the minimum wage will throw people out of work, put restaurants out of business. Instead, the facts are unemployment went down and the restaurant business boomed. Theory vs. Facts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I notice that both here and on other sites, people attacking Hanaeur's position are doing so with insipid, abstract observations -- not with hard facts. Lot's of crap about how this or that is theoretically true -- not much at all that's genuinely factual.

It's Seattle all over again. The neoliberals saying that raising the minimum wage will throw people out of work, put restaurants out of business. Instead, the facts are unemployment went down and the restaurant business boomed. Theory vs. Facts.

With typical neoliberal positions about jobs and wages, you'd think great paying jobs were easy, nice benefits a negotiation away, and getting to choose where you work the norm, and poverty defintely not cyclic in nature. That's about as high up there in the ivory tower as it gets, far removed from people having to work nor where they want but where they can get a job, wages and benefits to they have to accept because someone else will, and great wealth coming to very few through actual hard work alone.

 

[Nakosis]

If you know so much, why are you parroting other people? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this issue?

I think I've expressed quite a few of my own thought, perhaps you haven't noticed.

OTOH, I see no problem using and repeating good ideas. Kind of silly don't you think to condense my posts to a one liner to criticize.