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How old would an Muslim say the Earth/Universe is?
- Thread starter Silver
- Start date
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
How old would a human being say the Earth/Universe is?
6000 years?
or 4.5 Billion years for the Earth, 13.5 Billion years for the Universe?
I think the answer to the above is the answer to your question as well: it varies. There will be some people who wont have any idea and say we dont know, some will say 4.5 billion who agree to the scientific view, someone might just say thousands of years old etc. I dont think anyone will say 6000 though, that isnt in the Quran and Muslims dont really follow the Bible verbatim.
The fact is that Islam doesnt have any strict position regarding the age of the earth, and in fact many scientific facts. The kind of conflict that you find between Christianity and science, is just not there in Islam, (not at the level of serious discourse anyway, I am not talking of pseudo-scholars trying to show that the Quran is scientific etc).
Regards
Richard Hayman
Member
Actually science is very much at odds with Islam as it is with all other religions.... Like with Christianity, Judaism, Hindu etc.... It makes a lot of far out claims that no one of faith could ever back up or debate in a rational setting as does all others as well.
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
Silver
Just maybe
Yet Muslims regard Adam and Eve as the first man and woman,
or have I got that wrong?
Richard Hayman
Member
I can give you several.
1: Adam and Eve (Creationism)
2: Homosexuality as unnatural
3: God (Allah)
4: Prophets and divine intervention.
5: Afterlife
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I don't feel at odds with science at all. Mythology and Science are two different things. In fact I would say the Hindu world view fits well with the scientific world view. We Hindu's can be very flexible (I am not talking about yoga) and our philosophy express that. The same is true of some other faiths.
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A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
Regarding the 1st two you are simply mistaken by taking it out of context. As for the last three could you point me to the relevant scientific papers from peer reviewed journals discrediting these ideas as wrong. It would be something new for me.
Regards
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Silver
Just maybe
I was hoping someone could answer the above question.
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
Hmm...Let me explain how I understand Adam and Eve, (its not my own theory btw, it was given in the middle ages by Muslim philosphers). All creation is devolved from a metaphysical Reality, (in Islamic terms, our spirits have come from God: One half of the Islamic formula: Verily we are from God...") and undergoes an evolutionary process leading to rejoining it (The other half of the forrmula: ...And to him shall we return). All matter in the universe obeys this law and this movement is due to an inbuilt urge (which Mawlana Rumi, the Sufi, called "love") to evolve and seek enjoinment with the divinity from which it has emerged. The doctrine of the Fall of Adam is reinterpreted as the devolution of the Ego from the universal ground of divinity and is a universal, cosmic phenomenon. By the way, the French philosopher Henri Bergson propounded a similar idea.
Regards
Regards
Richard Hayman
Member
No I am not mistaken, Muslims just don't share with outsiders. I have not met a Muslim that did not say it was in their beliefs to support homosexuality as natural, the evidence of this can be seen in religious law passed in Islamic nations.
Adam and Eve = Creationism.... This story is the very basis for this ideology in all religion that feature these 2.
As for the next 3.
3: Allah: The only way to disprove something is by relying on the lack of evidence to support something. There is no evidence for any kind of God and this lack of evidence coupled with the knowledge gained over the last couple of centuries there is nothing at all except wishful thinking to support such a being.
4: Prophets and Divine intervention: First you have to be able to prove that a God exists, which you can't. Than you have to prove that people are connected with God and that their prophecies come true. again lack of evidence and references in a shady book suggest absolutely nothing.
5: Afterlife: Again lack of evidence.
You see since I am not making any claims as an unbeliever, it becomes than up to those making the said claim to prove it. It is on your shoulders to prove what you may believe to be correct.
I merely pointed out 5 things that the scientific community would point out.
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
I disagree that homosexuality is unnatural and I am a Muslim. So called "Islamic laws" which say this have only recently been introduced, are debatable. (There are varying interpretations of laws in Islam, theres not a body like the Church in Islam). Adam and Eve I have already said that I believe that the whole story is metaphorical.
As for your statement that "The only way to disprove something is by relying on the lack of evidence to support something." I entirely reject it. Not only that, I dont believe it is a scientific statement. If you cant prove a statement all you can say that it is unproven. You cant say that it has been disproved. Thats an argument from ignorance.
With this mind, I disagree with the last 3 points.
(And by the way you are working with the implicit assumption (which I feel runs through much of Western culture), that scientific knowledge is the only valid means of ascertaining the truth. I just wish to point out that this is too an "unproven" assumption.)
Regards.
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Richard Hayman
Member
You clearly misunderstand what I have written about evidence.
The only way you can show something doesn't exist is to not find it. Since science has figured out that the Universe does not need a supreme being to operate why would there be one? There are no miracles like in these books in reality, no one has any connection to any kind of God beyond the confines of their skulls.....
As for Islamic Law, admittedly it has gotten worse over the years, but the Middle East has been a staple of Totalitarianism for centuries. Saudi Arabia for example hasn't changed much except for financially in the last 100 years.
In many places there actually it has gotten better as well as we see more moderate nations propping up.
The world would be a better place without religion, less division between our species = peace. I'll give you an example... If Judaism and Islam say never existed there would be peace because there would be no reason to war. the populations would have interbred and become one and the world would be a different place.
An argument of ignorance is to say you believe in religion since religion is irrational. There is no logical or rational argument that anyone can give to support the existence of a creator.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
It's worth pointing out that one needs to define what they are attempting to prove or disprove, since 'God' is such a vague term. In this case for example: what is the nature of the Islamic concept of Allah, in both a personality and attribute sense?
I see this as a slightly better way of showing whether something or not exists, than 'finding' it. What do you mean by 'finding' exactly, anyway?
I don't think so.
Why is this?
Not all religions require or even have the concept of a creator God. Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism do not have creator gods, and there are Hindu atheists, too. What do you say about those?
Plus, what is meant by a 'creator'? As in, whoomf there is everything kind of creation, or a prime cause kind of creator, or both?
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Most wars of the last 200 years were motivated by some type nationalism; WWI,WWII, Vietnam,Civil War, Revolutionary War, Falklands,Gulf War, and Napoleonic Wars religion was not a major factor in any of these wars. Even the wars that did inclued religion like Serbia, Mao's invasion of Tibet, and todays confict "War on Terror" nationalism is still a large part of it.
It is an abserd notion to blame all Wars on religion.
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.lava
Veteran Member
sure it is not 6000 years old. stones we study are much more older than that, like hundreds of millions years old. i don't know exact number though
.
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
Thats a classic example of an argument from ignorance. If you can't find it, the possibility of you being incompetent to find it is very much there. It would be the height of arrogance to claim that "since I can't find it, so it can't exist".
Regards
