How shall we correct this injustice?

[Foxfyre]

He not only bragged about doing "those things" but he was also found civilly liable by a judge and two juries of actually doing "those things" to a woman.

I know of no men who speak and act like that, and if I did, I wouldn't know them for very long. Please don't try to minimize such disgusting behaviour.

Have a nice day.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How did you reach this conclusion?

Just a bit ago, I was telling another forum member how my family camps out at Yosemite each summer. I've encountered more bears than I can count, but none have attacked me or anyone else.

But I also think that if you google black bears, you will find out that they are very shy and avoid people rather than attack them. I realize that Grizzlies are wired differently, but Grizzlies are very rare, and don't exist in my state at all.

 

[Vinayaka]

Very good post.

I was a little iffy about the above remark. It seems to suggest you think rape is about sex. It's not. Rape is about power, control, domination. I do understand what you are saying about celebrity rape and entitlement. But even in those cases, I don't think they would have any problems finding women who consent. The reason they rape is to show how they can do whatever they want, and that makes it a power thing. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you.

Oh, I know it's about power. Sorry if my words weren't clear enough to make you think I thought it wasn't about power. Yes, your take makes sense to me. Power is misused in a ton of ways. This culture is dehumanizing all day long in far less severe ways. Just look at how waitresses, hotel cleaning staff, and so many others are treated. Everyone is human, have families, have challenges, etc. How does ignoring their very existence make them feel?

 

[Koldo]

Just a bit ago, I was telling another forum member how my family camps out at Yosemite each summer. I've encountered more bears than I can count, but none have attacked me or anyone else.

But I also think that if you google black bears, you will find out that they are very shy and avoid people rather than attack them. I realize that Grizzlies are wired differently, but Grizzlies are very rare, and don't exist in my state at all.

Ok. You have established the odds of a bear attacking you are very small through your experiences. How have you established the odds of a man attacking you in the woods?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I always dislike these remarks about rape not being about sex, because even though it is often not about sex, there are many times where it is also about sex. Generally speaking, if there is an intercourse involving an erected penile, you can count on it involving sexual gratification as being at least one of the main drivers behind the act much much much more often than not. It takes a very peculiar set of (undesirable) skills for a male to pull that off without feeling sexual arousal.

One of the things I learned from watching Prof. Robert Sapolskies Stanford lecture series in Behavioral Biology, is that the hypothalamus, specifically the medial preoptic area (MPOA), which is a key brain structure associated with sexual arousal in men, also has connections to aggression and violence. This is why men can blur the lines between violence and sex. It's why you have rape in war. Their penis becomes a weapon.

During the Japanese rape of Nanjing, Japanese soldiers took knives and cut vaginas into babies so that they could rape the babies. Do you really want to say their erection had to do with sex? Or can you concede that men CAN feel arousal and get an erection for other reasons?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ok. You have established the odds of a bear attacking you are very small through your experiences. How have you established the odds of a man attacking you in the woods?

Well, let's just say that unlike bear attacks, I have known a great many women that have been attacked by men.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So.... Let's get down to the brass tacks. WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THIS? How can our laws be changed? How can police policies be changed? How can o

Teach young women and men both how exactly to teach children especially small ones obedience and how to have happy homes. There are many families suffering needlessly. For example a lot of parents yell at small children.

Men have two sides. We have an aggressive side and a compassionate and logical side to balance our aggression, to make us aware when we are losing sight of reason. This compassion and logic is the basis of many good things in society today, so We must teach young men how to tap into that, to feel it and connect with it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Teach young women and men both how exactly to teach children especially small ones obedience and how to have happy homes. There are many families suffering needlessly. For example a lot of parents yell at small children.

Men have two sides. We have an aggressive side and a compassionate and logical side to balance our aggression, to make us aware when we are losing sight of reason. This compassion and logic is the basis of many good things in society today, so We must teach young men how to tap into that, to feel it and connect with it.

As much as I appreciate everything you said, I just don't see it making a bit of difference to the problem.

 

[John53]

Just a bit ago, I was telling another forum member how my family camps out at Yosemite each summer. I've encountered more bears than I can count, but none have attacked me or anyone else.

I did a lot of wildlife photography and photographed many dingos, whenever I showed those photos someone would always warn me about being near them because they're so dangerous. I've never had a dingo threaten or attack me but I was physically attacked once by a man and threatened many times (by men and women) just for carrying a camera.

I know my anecdote is not an answer to your OP, I wish I did have an answer.

 

[Revoltingest]

What do you mean by "nearly-of-age"? As in being nearly an adult? Here in Brazil it is odd because you become an adult by 18 but can consent to sex (with nearly anyone) by 14.

The law here vary by state.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think you did put your OP in the correct place but I don't know enough about you to say if you did it intentionally or not.

Lately the so-called rape victims are coming out in numbers against political figures. The "me too" movement!

After Trump's win - there are women out there literally shaking in their boots and working their heads off 24/7 and trying to figure out how to take down some of Trump's picks. They are feeling threatened. Some of them may go an extra mile to fight for their pro-choice agendas or their stance that favors LGBTQ+ community. IMO

So, these folks want to know how they can effectively make some noise.
I get it!


Other than the issue I just mentioned - your OP is a well thought out post but do some further investigation. IMO

Apart from the victims who preserve the evidence of the crime and report it immediately (as those are possibly the real victims) - I would take the testimonies of the ones reporting late - with a grain of salt.

You mentioned few women report the crime and you spoke about the reason many women don't report the crime at all BUT you didn't mention anything about the ones who report it late or totally make up the accusation.

So - in my opinion your original post was biased as I can see you probably believe every single women always speak the truth. They don't!

Find out more about the ones who do the report but do it very very late (years later).
I have problems with their testimonies. Of course you could point out various reasons an alleged victim could wait years before reporting the crime but for fairness purposes and to preserve the integrity of the justice system and to protect innocents from being falsely accused - there should be a very short window to report this particular crime. Not only that is the right thing to do but you could potentially save other future victims if the crime is reported in a timely fashion.

You may see a pattern behind the ones who report 'late'.

#1. If the alleged victim waits too long to report then chances are the detail of the encounter becomes fuzzy and hence the detail could play a trick on her mind. It is very likely - as time passes - a need for self preservation kicks in. It helps create a false depiction in the mind that it was indeed a rape and it was not her fault. Self preservation kicks in to prevent any further mental agony. In this process the mind tries to shift the blame from thyself unto the other party (alleged attacker in this case) because the encounter may not have been a pleasant or pleasurable one or it took place when one might have been under the influence or one may have been out of her element at the time due to some other reason.

Just look at the examples of traffic infringers and especially the ones who cause traffic accidents - most realize and acknowledge their fault on the accident scene but once out of the accident site and days or months later - many try to deny accountabilities and try to go as far as claiming to be innocent. In some cases - some actual guilty folks who really caused the accident even truly start believing - they were innocent. They really start believing they were wrongly accused in the first place.
The lapse of time can play a number on you mind!
I am not saying - all incidents those are reported years later are false. But a great number probably are! IMO

#2. If the accused is famous then the accusation could be politically motivated and a crime by itself.

#3. If the accused is rich then the accusation could be financially motivated - maybe it is done to make some money out of the allegedly accused.

If the victim signs an affidavit that she only wants justice served under the criminal jurisdiction and that she won't take the accused through civil restitution process - then I would take her accusation more seriously.
But unfortunately most of the time it is about the 'money'.


There are always three sides of the story - the alleged victim's story, the alleged offender's story and the truth. And the judge tries to ascertain that 'truth' and that truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Silence is acceptance. Silence is concurrence. Silence is compliance.
No reason is good enough to be silent about a crime that was committed against you unless your life was in absolute danger had you reported it immediately or in a timely fashion.

As for how it can be rectified or eradicated or at least prevent it in any reasonable way...

#1 Change the law and make it severe for cases that can be proven beyond any doubt (i.e. the incident caught on camera, proven by DNA evidence and bodily injuries, multiple eyewitnesses accounts, etc.)
A brief period in jail is not not enough, Huge punishment will deter many.

#2 Forget your rights for your privacy when in public - place cameras at all strategic locations throughout your city if possible (every nook and corner) excluding public restrooms/ toilets. Don't worry about who is watching. If you don't break any laws then why not sacrifice privacy for safety?

#3 Install and allow satellite imagery or video and allow it to crime prevention agencies to monitor crimes. Again - sacrifice your privacy while under the open sky for your security.

#4 A future thing! Wear chips under the skin that can detect your location round the clock and match and find who was around you at a given moment when the crime is reported. It will also exonerate someone who was not there.

#5 Voluntarily allow to create a DNA database and records of fingerprints with the government - so that government can find the criminal fast. Why would anyone have a problem with this if they are not committing any crime? Don't you trust the government? Well, why then ask for help if you don't trust the police?
I really doubt that the government will misuse your information.

#6 Educate everyone from an early years. Some religions are dying out. Less folks are practicing nowadays - without objective morality - subjective morality is governing many folks and when the opportunity presents itself to such folks - sometimes nothing is stopping them from committing the crimes because they are not afraid about punishment afterlife.

Any how - if any or all mentioned above could be implemented or advocated then - crimes such as "rape" would be a thing of the past.

Seems like you don't understand the psychology of a person who has been raped.

Research the large cases of rape involving insular groups, like religious groups, and perpetrated by family members and realise that surveillance won't make a difference because these things dont happen in plain sight.

 

[Koldo]

One of the things I learned from watching Prof. Robert Sapolskies Stanford lecture series in Behavioral Biology, is that the hypothalamus, specifically the medial preoptic area (MPOA), which is a key brain structure associated with sexual arousal in men, also has connections to aggression and violence. This is why men can blur the lines between violence and sex. It's why you have rape in war. Their penis becomes a weapon.

I am trying to understand your claim here. Do you mean a man can maintain an erection strictly on the basis of aggression and violence without being sexually aroused? Or do you mean that a man can become sexually aroused through the use of violence and aggression?

If the latter, no disagreement on my part. Anything done to achieve sexual satisfaction is sexual. However, it is worth of note that in typical environments where the violence is present (such as in fighting rings), it is not common for a man to have a boner, at all.

During the Japanese rape of Nanjing, Japanese soldiers took knives and cut vaginas into babies so that they could rape the babies. Do you really want to say their erection had to do with sex? Or can you concede that men CAN feel arousal and get an erection for other reasons?

What source do you have for this event actually happening? I tried to look up and found nothing. Either way, there are exceptions to the rule, but no ordinary man would be able to do this kind of thing (not only because of the cruelty involved).

 

[Koldo]

Well, let's just say that unlike bear attacks, I have known a great many women that have been attacked by men.

While alone in the woods? By attacked, what do you mean specifically? Attacked with the intent of killing?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am trying to understand your claim here. Do you mean a man can maintain an erection strictly on the basis of aggression and violence without being sexually aroused? Or do you mean that a man can become sexually aroused through the use of violence and aggression?

I'm saying a man can become sexually aroused, not because he is around sexual stimuli, but because of violence and aggression.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

While alone in the woods? By attacked, what do you mean specifically? Attacked with the intent of killing?

I've never known any woman who has ever been alone in the woods. That was part of a hypothetical that was not even made up by me, but seems to have been an internet meme.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As much as I appreciate everything you said, I just don't see it making a bit of difference to the problem.

Fighting human nature is a multi-generational, planned achievement not a one off thing where we pull a lever and win. In western society we reject rape despite its clear position in human nature. How have we managed to achieve such a low rate of rape in spite of how mixed our society is? We have done it by manipulating human nature over generations.

For a short term idea how about we in USA segregate high schools keeping males and females separate and introduce formal protocols for males and females to interact? That may have unpredictable results. Most solutions do.

 

[Koldo]

I'm saying a man can become sexually aroused, not because he is around sexual stimuli, but because of violence and aggression.

Can't violence and aggression be sexual stimuli though, like in BDSM?

 

[Koldo]

I've never known any woman who has ever been alone in the woods. That was part of a hypothetical that was not even made up by me, but seems to have been an internet meme.

I know, but since women pass-by a huge number of people every single day without getting attacked, how did you reach the conclusion that you are more likely to be attacked by a man in the woods than a bear?

To measure probability you need to take into consideration how many times an event happens whenever the opportunity arives.

I know nothing about your life. But let's say you had to leave your house today to go somewhere, anywhere. Depending on the city you live in, you probably passed by hundreds if not thousands of men on your way there and then back home. And nobody attacked you (or at least I hope so). In a single day, you passed by a lot more men than the number of bears you can reasonably expect to encounter in your entire life.

 

[Heyo]

The perp just says it was consensual sex, and that she wanted it rough.

At least, he can't say that it didn't happen.

And then it is "only" a question if it was consensual. But assault is still assault, even if it is consensual, and the perp has to convince the court that it was.

 

[Heyo]

I know, but since women pass-by a huge number of people every single day without getting attacked, how did you reach the conclusion that you are more likely to be attacked by a man in the woods than a bear?

To measure probability you need to take into consideration how many times an event happens whenever the opportunity arives.

I know nothing about your life. But let's say you had to leave your house today to go somewhere, anywhere. Depending on the city you live in, you probably passed by hundreds if not thousands of men on your way there and then back home. And nobody attacked you (or at least I hope so). In a single day, you passed by a lot more men than the number of bears you can reasonably expect to encounter in your entire life.

Bad analogy. In a city, you are never really "alone". There are other people, or can be, just around the corner.