How the chickens learned the need to sit on it's eggs ?

[apophenia]

News Flash from the future -

"The long awaited authentication of the inexplicable fact that we are aware of our existence has been provided today by scientists at JPL, who have stated that ..."

 

[apophenia]

Need to explain it.

Why ?

Why does science need to explain it ?

Religion can't explain it either.

Being self-aware entities is not evidence for religion nor against science.

This religion v science thing seems to have dissolved most folks capacity to simply be what they are without someone giving them an 'explanation'.

 

[darkendless]

2.

I'm not talking about if someone else can see you, I'm referring to your own sense of existence, the recognition of your presence.

Because this sort of question is just absolute garbage outside the realms of science.

 

[apophenia]

Because this sort of question is just absolute garbage outside the realms of science.

You are saying "I feel obliged to dismiss the obvious reality of my self-awareness, because there is no adequate scientific theory to fully account for it. I will ridicule anyone who draws my attention to it."

Keep going man, you're doing a great job of exposing the mindboggling folly that is scientagonism, LOL .

Face the facts - you have self-awareness. Next time you go to bed, and lie down in the dark and close your eyes, relax and let go of your fixations .... what are you experiencing ?

There is a kind of dull light behind your eyeballs. It's a bit grainy usually, with tiny flickering phosphenes.

Feel the sense of 'looking' even though your eyes are closed. As if you were looking at the inside of your eyelids. Then become aware of who is looking. Feel the sense of "I" which is present even when there isn't a thought in your head ...

You are witnessing yourself ! Despite the absence of a decent scientific explanation ! You are a 'presence', a 'being' !

Who knew ?

 

[atanu]

I didn't and I never have. I've never once tried to indicate that abiogenesis has anything to do with evolution. FearGod mentioned "the origin of life" as something for which only a God could be an explanation - that is the only reason I brought abiogenesis up, and I never NOT EVEN ONCE said it had any relation to evolution whatsoever.

Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth.

"Viable" essentially means "capable of working". As of yet, science has come across no reason whatsoever why life cannot form naturally, therefore the concept of abiogenesis is still viable. It is incomplete as a theory, since it as yet cannot fully explain the "how", but life coming about through natural processes is still possible.

Now you're just making stuff up. I have done no such thing. I've not used any "word play", I've not compared abiogenesis with evolution, I've never said that abiogenesis is as viable as evolution.

Do not just make stuff up when people have clearly explained to you that your assumptions were wrong. Just admit that you made a mistake about my position and move one.

It is surprising that those who hold that life/intelligence are products determined by natural process, however cling to their own view as viable and label other views as asinine etc. Whereas, if the intelligence was a deterministic product then the truth value of any proposition would be ultimately indeterminate.

So, what you initially termed as "Perfectly Viable Explanation' and later as 'Hypothesis' .. namely, the hypothesis of abiogenesis, is not a proof of origin of intelligence from non-intelligent inert materials. So, it is premature to claim that you have a perfectly viable explanation. I will again remind you that Hypothesis is 'Proposed explanation' and not 'explanation'.

I am done.

 

[apophenia]

Because this sort of question is just absolute garbage outside the realms of science.

1.

This is not a question it is an observation which anyone can make without resorting to either science or belief.

For ****'s sake man, I'm referring to your sense of self ! And you are telling me there is no such thing ! :areyoucra

2.

You are using the circular argument typical of a fundamentalist scientagonist - "science describes everything, therefore if you refer to anything which is not 'within the realms of science', what you are describing is unscientific and therefore non-existent."

Duh. Brilliant.

 

[atanu]

This religion v science thing seems to have dissolved most folks capacity to simply be what they are without someone giving them an 'explanation'.

It is, IMO, more "I know better" than anything else.

 

[FearGod]

1.

This is not a question it is an observation which anyone can make without resorting to either science or belief.

For ****'s sake man, I'm referring to your sense of self ! And you are telling me there is no such thing ! :areyoucra

2.

You are using the circular argument typical of a fundamentalist scientagonist - "science describes everything, therefore if you refer to anything which is not 'within the realms of science', what you are describing is unscientific and therefore non-existent."

Duh. Brilliant.

Maybe he thought that you're speaking about ghosts.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a serious disconnect here.

It is stunning that the absence of a scientific paradigm to explain 'knowing that you exist' , or the 'sense of presence', will result in otherwise intelligent people claiming that such a sense is in question.

Jaw-dropping actually.

How on Earth am I supposed to know how others feel? All the more with such a subtle and ill-defined perception?

 

[apophenia]

Maybe we know we exist, maybe we each have a sense of presence, we're just not convinced without a theory we can quote from Wikipedia .

Maybe it does exist. I simply don't know what you mean by "sense of being", and therefore won't casually say that it does exist.

I don't know what a sense of presence is, nor how I would realize if I had one

I'm self-aware to some degree. I'm not sure whether I truly exist, though.

It is not scientific that's why.

And one of my personal favorites ...

Of course I exist, if you can see me, I exist. What more does science need to say?

this sort of question is just absolute garbage outside the realms of science.

I remind you dear reader, we are discussing our awareness of our existence here.

Apparently that is unscientific garbage.

I repeat ...

 

[darkendless]

Face the facts - you have self-awareness. Next time you go to bed, and lie down in the dark and close your eyes, relax and let go of your fixations .... what are you experiencing ?

Sleep.

There is a kind of dull light behind your eyeballs. It's a bit grainy usually, with tiny flickering phosphenes.

You should get that checked out.

Feel the sense of 'looking' even though your eyes are closed. As if you were looking at the inside of your eyelids. Then become aware of who is looking. Feel the sense of "I" which is present even when there isn't a thought in your head ...

It's the brain operating...... there is so much science behind it that you would dismiss and replace with your philosophical ramblings.

You are witnessing yourself ! Despite the absence of a decent scientific explanation ! You are a 'presence', a 'being' !

Who knew ?

No, i'm sleeping. By your absurd reasoning we're always experiencing ourselves because our minds are always operating. Closing my eyes means jack.

 

[apophenia]

Maybe he thought that you're speaking about ghosts.

I may as well be apparently.

It must be peculiar being unaware that you are aware that you exist.

 

[FearGod]

Sleep.



You should get that checked out.



It's the brain operating...... there is so much science behind it that you would dismiss and replace with your philosophical ramblings.



No, i'm sleeping. By your absurd reasoning we're always experiencing ourselves because our minds are always operating. Closing my eyes means jack.

When you feel hungry,then what it means?

your stomach wants to eat or your brain wants to eat or you are the one who wants to eat.

Your brain is just a part of your body,but it isn't you.

Let me show you one example.

Your stomach sent a signal to your brain that your body is in need for food but your soul (which is "you" and call it other name if you wish) decided to suicide.

Now we can by force to keep you alive,but in reality yourself is refusing to be alive.

The brain is a processor but it isn't you,in other words you are the one who make decisions and not your brain.

 

[apophenia]

It's the brain operating...... there is so much science behind it that you would dismiss and replace with your philosophical ramblings.

Philosophical ramblings ?

Not at all. I am simply referencing something which is familiar to everyone ( though some claim to not understand what I'm talking about )- the sense of knowing, wordlessly and right now, that you exist. The experience of 'being'.

There is as yet no science behind that. 'Brain chemistry' falls well short of explaining the recognition of being. And that seems to aggravate you badly.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

When you feel hungry,then what it means?

your stomach wants to eat or your brain wants to eat or you are the one who wants to eat.

Your brain is just a part of your body,but it isn't you.

Let me show you one example.

Your stomach sent a signal to your brain that your body is in need for food but your soul (which is "you" and call it other name if you wish) decided to suicide.

Now we can by force to keep you alive,but in reality yourself is refusing to be alive.

The brain is a processor but it isn't you,in other words you are the one who make decisions and not your brain.

So you are saying that you don't use your brain at all?
I know that sounds like a derisive pun, but you have just made an age old philisophical point (mind - brain separation), and you are preaching it out as some kind of obvious given truth.
But its not. :no:
Here, read this....Understanding Brain, Mind and Soul: Contributions from Neurology and Neurosurgery
....and yet, even with all of these learned brains/minds who have poured over the subject across the span of centuries, what you and Apophenia demand as truth (and chastise others about like they are uneducated children) is still, in the thoughts of these scholars, just a "maybe"

Try dialing it back, and start working only with things that have concrete evidence. :namaste:

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I will again remind you that Hypothesis is 'Proposed explanation' and not 'explanation'.

Yep, we're done.

 

[FearGod]

So you are saying that you don't use your brain at all?
I know that sounds like a derisive pun, but you have just made an age old philisophical point (mind - brain separation), and you are preaching it out as some kind of obvious given truth.
But its not. :no:
Here, read this....Understanding Brain, Mind and Soul: Contributions from Neurology and Neurosurgery
....and yet, even with all of these learned brains/minds who have poured over the subject across the span of centuries, what you and Apophenia demand as truth (and chastise others about like they are uneducated children) is still, in the thoughts of these scholars, just a "maybe"

Try dialing it back, and start working only with things that have concrete evidence. :namaste:

i have to stop at your first statement which is telling it all.

So you are saying that you don't use your brain at all?

Yes i use my brain as one important part of my body.

So if you are smart enough then your question and my answer will be enough for you to understand if you are willing so.

i don't need to read any article about body & soul because im aware of it more than you imagine.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

i have to stop at your first statement which is telling it all.

So you are saying that you don't use your brain at all?

Yes i use my brain as one important part of my body.

So if you are smart enough then your question and my answer will be enough for you to understand if you are willing so.

i don't need to read any article about body & soul because im aware of it more than you imagine.

I was putting your chance of reading and learning at 'less than 10%'.
We are all (including you) unaware of more than we can imagine.

 

[Ouroboros]

News Flash from the future -

"The long awaited authentication of the inexplicable fact that we are aware of our existence has been provided today by scientists at JPL, who have stated that ..."

Dolphin Self-Recognition Mirrors Our Own. An article about dolphins' awareness about their own existence and identity.

To test for dolphin self-awareness, Diana Reiss of Columbia University and Lori Marino of Emory University exposed two bottlenose dolphins to reflective surfaces after marking the dolphins with black ink, applying a water-filled marker (sham-marking) or not marking them at all. The team predicted that if the dolphins¿which had prior experience with mirrors¿recognized their reflections, they would not show social responses; they would spend more time in front of the mirror when marked; and they would make their way over to the mirror more quickly to inspect themselves when marked or sham-marked. The experiments bore out all three predictions in both dolphin subjects. Moreover, the animals even selected the best reflective surface available to view their markings.

Maybe we just need to do the same experiment on humans? LOL!

 

[atanu]

So you are saying that you don't use your brain at all? . :namaste:

Are you saying that you exist and use your brain? That is a surprise news.