How the chickens learned the need to sit on it's eggs ?

[ImmortalFlame]

For me i have evidences from the quran,but that won't work with you.

Yes, because a book is not evidence of anything. I asked for a demonstration. Since you claimed that you could observe the effects of God, now I'm asking you how you do that. Can you do it or not?

 

[FearGod]

Yes, because a book is not evidence of anything. I asked for a demonstration. Since you claimed that you could observe the effects of God, now I'm asking you how you do that. Can you do it or not?

god's effect is every where,but you can easily prove that god doesn't exist.

1 - create any living organism out of nonliving matter.
2 - stop the aging proccess as to live at least 250 years.

But the analogies which atheists usually using are ridiculous because it gives examples for things which has no effects such as the analogy of the teapot.

God is the creator,so his effect is around us every where,but for you and some others,it is the work of randomness and chances but for me and some others,its the work of a supernatural power.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

god's effect is every where,but you can easily prove that god doesn't exist.

No, we can't. That's the point. Under any general definition, God is unfalsifiable.

In any case, you're shifting the burden of proof. I don't have to provide evidence that God doesn't exist because I've never made that claim. You claimed that God has a measurable effect, I'm asking YOU to support your claim with evidence. Can you do it or not?

1 - create any living organism out of nonliving matter.

Ugh. That wouldn't disprove the existence of a God, it would just prove that life can come from nonliving matter.

2 - stop the aging proccess as to live at least 250 years.

Uh, what? That has absolutely nothing to do with testing God.

But the analogies which atheists usually using are ridiculous because it gives examples for things which has no effects such as the analogy of the teapot.

But you have yet to demonstrate that God has any tangible effect on reality. I could just as easily claim that anything is a result of the teapot, but without demonstrating the existence of a teapot in the first place, any claim attached to it is meritless.

God is the creator,so his effect is around us every where,

Then prove that God exists.

but for you and some others,it is the work of randomness and chances but for me and some others,its the work of a supernatural power.

And since no supernatural power has ever been demonstrated to exist, I am far, far, far more likely to be right.

By the way, EVOLUTION IS NOT JUST "RANDOMNESS AND CHANCE". This has been explained to you over and over and over. Why are you having such difficulty understanding this extremely basic fact?

 

[FearGod]

No, we can't. That's the point. Under any general definition, God is unfalsifiable.

In any case, you're shifting the burden of proof. I don't have to provide evidence that God doesn't exist because I've never made that claim. You claimed that God has a measurable effect, I'm asking YOU to support your claim with evidence. Can you do it or not?


Ugh. That wouldn't disprove the existence of a God, it would just prove that life can come from nonliving matter.


Uh, what? That has absolutely nothing to do with testing God.


But you have yet to demonstrate that God has any tangible effect on reality. I could just as easily claim that anything is a result of the teapot, but without demonstrating the existence of a teapot in the first place, any claim attached to it is meritless.


Then prove that God exists.


And since no supernatural power has ever been demonstrated to exist, I am far, far, far more likely to be right.

By the way, EVOLUTION IS NOT JUST "RANDOMNESS AND CHANCE". This has been explained to you over and over and over. Why are you having such difficulty understanding this extremely basic fact?

God isn't kind of physical thing as to say here it is.

There is no intelligent in evolution,so yes it is random mutations and natural selection,so how come it isn't randomness,as the lucky workable ones will survive and the unlucky ones will die.

if you meant to say it isn't randomness but planned and designed as to be so,then its your turn to demonstrate

 

[ImmortalFlame]

God isn't kind of physical thing as to say here it is.

You said this:

"Yes its true that we can't see god,but we can see his effect"

If we can observe the effect of God, then surely God must manifest physically or have some effect on the physical world.

Now, answer my question. In what way can we observe God's effect and how can you demonstrate that God is the cause?

There is no intelligent in evolution,so yes it is random mutations and natural selection,so how come it isn't randomness,as the lucky workable ones will survive and the unlucky ones will die.

How come you still don't understand evolution despite us having explained it to you, in detail, dozens of times? Survival isn't based on "luck". It's based on the species ability to successfully reproduce, which is determined by the environment and the individual mutations that either increase or decrease their survivability. It's not based on luck or randomness, that's exactly what natural selection means.

 

[Alceste]

God isn't kind of physical thing as to say here it is.

There is no intelligent in evolution,so yes it is random mutations and natural selection,so how come it isn't randomness,as the lucky workable ones will survive and the unlucky ones will die.

if you meant to say it isn't randomness but planned and designed as to be so,then its your turn to demonstrate

This is exactly what we observe. The vast majority of species that have ever existed in the history of the earth have died out completely, leaving nothing but a few scattered bones. Was that your God's plan?

 

[atanu]

Good question. It is difficult to say what a bird, especially an ancient bird, would "want". But I do think the bird does want to protect and care for its offspring. ----
So it doesn't matter if the bird is sitting on the egg because it wants to protect their offspring, or if then bird is sitting on the egg because it likes sitting on eggs. Either way it is genetically coded behaviour and can be naturally selected.

Why speculate. Do we not know what we want? Do we not every moment think of our own survival and think how to beat the **** out of the opponent?

 

[camanintx]

god's effect is every where,but you can easily prove that god doesn't exist.

1 - create any living organism out of nonliving matter.

This happens about 4 times every second, you just need to know where to look.

2 - stop the aging proccess as to live at least 250 years.

Do you have evidence that anything (much less God) has ever stopped the aging process and still lived?

 

[Debater Slayer]

How the chickens learned the need to sit on it's eggs ?

Because it couldn't cross the...

Never mind. :slap:

 

[Riverwolf]

There is no intelligent in evolution,so yes it is random mutations and natural selection,so how come it isn't randomness,as the lucky workable ones will survive and the unlucky ones will die.

They'll die either way. It has nothing to do with the individuals, but whether or not the mutation allows for a greater chance for survival of the species.

The ones most able to survive are the ones that do. The world is constantly changing, and the ones most able to adapt are the ones that survive. Some can, some can't.

 

[Debater Slayer]

God isn't kind of physical thing as to say here it is.

There is no intelligent in evolution,so yes it is random mutations and natural selection,so how come it isn't randomness,as the lucky workable ones will survive and the unlucky ones will die.

if you meant to say it isn't randomness but planned and designed as to be so,then its your turn to demonstrate

In all seriousness, though, I don't think that you'd have to rule out evolution to argue for the existence of a deity/deities. It seems to me that one could believe that the process is guided by an intelligent entity without necessarily being inconsistent with their religion's teachings.

 

[secret2]

In all seriousness, though, I don't think that you'd have to rule out evolution to argue for the existence of a deity/deities. It seems to me that one could believe that the process is guided by an intelligent entity without necessarily being inconsistent with their religion's teachings.

As much as one can believe that a falling apple is guided by an intelligent entity. So?

 

[atanu]

This happens about 4 times every second, you just need to know where to look.

But he asked you to do it and not merely show it.

 

[atanu]

In all seriousness, though, I don't think that you'd have to rule out evolution to argue for the existence of a deity/deities. It seems to me that one could believe that the process is guided by an intelligent entity without necessarily being inconsistent with their religion's teachings.

I agree. I would say that to say that awareness immanent in nature has a role does not contradict either side.

 

[atanu]

As much as one can believe that a falling apple is guided by an intelligent entity. So?

But the observation that an apple falls and an abilty to use that observation requires intelligence. No?

 

[Debater Slayer]

As much as one can believe that a falling apple is guided by an intelligent entity. So?

Gravity being a law "designed" by a deity/deities isn't an uncommon belief either, as far as I know.

The point I was trying to make is that people don't necessarily have to "disprove" evolution for their religion(s) to be correct or accurate. Many religious people don't seem to have a problem accepting both, so I think the whole "evolution = non-belief" thing is based on a false dichotomy to begin with.

 

[idea]

As much as one can believe that a falling apple is guided by an intelligent entity. So?

Living entities have intelligence - plants try to reach for the sun, animals choose where to live, what to eat etc. etc. rocks don't do this.

If you don't believe "intelligence" exists, then you don't believe there is any difference between living and non-living organisms imo. which is a pretty silly stance to take. Intelligence exists as a real entity - free will exists - we're more than robots.

 

[idea]

People don't necessarily have to "disprove" evolution for their religion(s) to be correct or accurate. Many religious people don't seem to have a problem accepting both, so I think the whole "evolution = non-belief" thing is based on a false dichotomy to begin with.

The whole point of religion is to become a new creature - to progress, refine, purify, change, perfect yourself - that's the point of evolution too.

 

[secret2]

Living entities have intelligence - plants try to reach for the sun, animals choose where to live, what to eat etc. etc. rocks don't do this.

If you don't believe "intelligence" exists, then you don't believe there is any difference between living and non-living organisms imo. which is a pretty silly stance to take. Intelligence exists as a real entity - free will exists - we're more than robots.

Of course there are differences, and of course living things have intelligence . That, however, doesn't mean I agree with your arm-chair scientish metaphysical claim about soul and mystical "mind".

 

[FearGod]

You said this:

"Yes its true that we can't see god,but we can see his effect"

If we can observe the effect of God, then surely God must manifest physically or have some effect on the physical world.

Now, answer my question. In what way can we observe God's effect and how can you demonstrate that God is the cause?

Do i have to repeat myself,i said we can observe god's effect for all things around us.
should i mention them all,i'll count some

1 - creation of the sun,moon and other planets,stars...etc
2 - creation of all living things
3 - creation of plants

God isn't a teapot because the teapot is a material which doesn't have any effect that can be observed,the same thing for the silly analogies of the invisible pink unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster which is a material things but for God we can observe his power and the well design of the universe,God didn't say,i am living in the moon or i am flying here or there

How come you still don't understand evolution despite us having explained it to you, in detail, dozens of times? Survival isn't based on "luck". It's based on the species ability to successfully reproduce, which is determined by the environment and the individual mutations that either increase or decrease their survivability. It's not based on luck or randomness, that's exactly what natural selection means.

i understand 2 things and you have to choose one which fits evolution.

A - Well planned and designed.
B - Randomness and chances

if not planned and designed then it should be "B"

To help you to understand then i'll give you an example

Was it planned and designed that we can speak and think or we have it by chance.