How to define Ancient Israelites

[fallingblood]

Often, here on the forums, debates about ancient Israel arise. One of the things that have been becoming much more clear to me is that a definition of ancient Israelites is not always straight forward. Often, there is a want to state something as if it was true for all ancient Israelites. Yet, the Bible, as well as other archeological evidence suggest that instead, there were a wide variety of beliefs.

In that regard, I would like to open this discussion with a question. How does not define the Israelites? At what point do they become the Hebrews?

 

[Awoon]

I've been told that "Hebrews" simply mean, the people who crossed the river. So when I cross a river Ima Hebrew?

 

[Freelance_Policeman]

Israelites would technically be those who lived in the Kingdom of Israel, much in the same way Jews are descendants of those who lived in the Kingdom of Judah. "Hebrew" would probably encompass both.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I've been told that "Hebrews" simply mean, the people who crossed the river. So when I cross a river Ima Hebrew?

Are you a human if you're not humane?

 

[Awoon]

Are you a human if you're not humane?

Yepper

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Yepper

Then Hebrews and river-crossing are unrelated.

 

[Awoon]

Then Hebrews and river-crossing are unrelated.

Nope, that's what Hebrew means. The people who crossed over or The people who crossed the river.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Nope, that's what Hebrew means. The people who crossed over or The people who crossed the river.

And humane and human share a common etymology as well. Etymological fallacies abound.

 

[Awoon]

And humane and human share a common etymology as well. Etymological fallacies abound.

Too big a word for me to understand (etymological) keep it simple.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In that regard, I would like to open this discussion with a question. How does not define the Israelites? At what point do they become the Hebrews?

It may well be far better to ask: At what point do the Hebrews become [absorbed into] the Israelites.

And yes: etymological fantasies abound, as does naive certainty.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Too big a word for me to understand ...

Clearly.

 

[Awoon]

Clearly.

As mud from YOU !!!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've been told that "Hebrews" simply mean, the people who crossed the river.

Abram the Hebrew The origin and meaning of the term `ivri is unknown and its use here is a riddle. Three suggestions are to be found in Genesis Rabba 42:13. One connects it with Eber, grandson of Noah, who is mentioned in 10:24 and 11:14; another derives it from Hebrew `ever, "beyond," that is, "the one from beyond [the river Euphrates]"; the third is homiletical and alludes to Abram's religious nonconformism: "All the world was on one side (`ever) and he was on the other side." For a more detailed discussion of the term, see Excursus 4. [Sarna]

"simply means ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From the Excurses ...

The foregoing data overwhelmingly support the view that `ivri is an ethnic term. The alternative geographic explanation is, moreover, discounted by the fact that Abram's family back home in Mesopotamia "beyond the River" is not called "Hebrew," but "Aramean". [ibid]

 

[Awoon]

From the Excurses ...

Cool!! Then when are you Jews or Iraqis', or Persians?

 

[Plato]

Often, here on the forums, debates about ancient Israel arise. One of the things that have been becoming much more clear to me is that a definition of ancient Israelites is not always straight forward. Often, there is a want to state something as if it was true for all ancient Israelites. Yet, the Bible, as well as other archeological evidence suggest that instead, there were a wide variety of beliefs.

In that regard, I would like to open this discussion with a question. How does not define the Israelites? At what point do they become the Hebrews?

Well Israel/ Hebrews are the descendants of.....'Jacob'.....He was 1st called....'Israel'....in Gen32 29.....It means one who struggles with a divine being.
A famine in Canaan supposedly later made these people under 'Joseph' go to live in 'Goshen' (the Nile Delta) of Egypt near either Avaris or Pi-Ramses (both real archeological sites). In Egypt they were called 'Haribu' (wanderers) presumably because they 'wandered in' from the Sinai desert (our Hebrews).
Then according to their own recorded history written down since at least 800BC they left Egypt to go back to Canaan under a half Egyptian (or someone with the Egyptian name)...Moses...(as in Egypt Ahmoses, Thutmoses etc.).
The Merneptah Stele (an Egyptian stone record) has them back as one of the peoples of Canaan 1213BC with the group name 'Israel'.

 

[rusra02]

Often, here on the forums, debates about ancient Israel arise. One of the things that have been becoming much more clear to me is that a definition of ancient Israelites is not always straight forward. Often, there is a want to state something as if it was true for all ancient Israelites. Yet, the Bible, as well as other archeological evidence suggest that instead, there were a wide variety of beliefs.

In that regard, I would like to open this discussion with a question. How does not define the Israelites? At what point do they become the Hebrews?

Abraham was called a Hebrew at Genesis 14:13. And thereafter the term applies to his descendants through Isaac and Jacob. (Exodus 1:16, for example.)