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How to freeze time using logical reasoning

Echogem222

Active Member
Objective and subjective time.jpg

(Picture created by an AI [on the left side is objective time and on the right side is subjective time])

Einstein’s Theory of Time:
Einstein’s theory of relativity fundamentally changed how we think about time. In his model, time is not absolute—it’s relative to the observer's motion or gravitational environment. This leads to phenomena like time dilation, where time appears to slow down for an observer traveling at high speeds or near a massive object.

In special relativity, the faster an object moves relative to the speed of light, the slower time passes for that object. In general relativity, the closer an object is to a source of gravity, the slower time appears to pass due to the warping of spacetime. These effects have been measured and confirmed through experiments like atomic clocks on airplanes and GPS satellites in orbit.

Why This View Is Flawed:
While Einstein’s theory accurately predicts the effects of time dilation and the role gravity plays, it relies on the assumption that time itself is changing. But what if the slowing of time isn’t due to time itself bending or stretching, but rather how we experience time under different conditions? This creates a key misunderstanding: what Einstein describes might not be time in the truest sense, but rather subjective time—a localized, perceptual phenomenon based on the observer’s environment.

Now, let's redefine this concept with a deeper distinction between true objective time and the subjective time Einstein's theory touches on:

True Objective Time:
- Objective Time is the underlying, universal flow that synchronizes all events across the entire universe.
- It’s not tied to any specific perception, location, or environment—it just is.
- This universal time is why, despite different subjective experiences of time (due to speed, gravity, etc.), all events in the universe remain connected and in sync. This is the true objective nature of time, which underlies everything.

Subjective Time (Including on Earth):
- Even what we think of as time on Earth is still subjective because it’s only how we experience time within the specific conditions of Earth (gravity, motion, etc.).
- Different places in the universe, due to different conditions (speed, gravity, etc.), have different subjective experiences of time. This is why we see things like time dilation in relativity—it's not time itself changing, but our subjective experience of it changing.
Why It’s All Connected:
- Despite the differences in subjective time at different locations (Earth, space, near black holes, etc.), the true objective time flows uniformly throughout the universe, keeping everything in sync. This is why events everywhere are connected, even if the subjective experience of time is different.

Refinement of the Clock Idea:
- The clocks we use, whether on Earth or in space, are still limited by our subjective experience of time.
- In space, if clocks were artificially sped up to match Earth’s time, they would still only reflect the subjective time of Earth or space, not the objective nature of time itself, which transcends all local perceptions.
The Core:
- Objective Time refers to the true, universal flow that keeps everything synchronized, independent of where you are or how fast you’re moving.
- Subjective Time (whether on Earth or in space) is how we experience that universal flow in our specific conditions, but it’s not the ultimate truth of time itself.

Why Believe My Theory of Time Instead?
The strength of this theory lies in logical reasoning. On Earth, we experience what we consider to be the "normal" flow of time. When we observe that time moves more slowly in space (through experiments or calculations), we are logically aware of a different subjective time at play. But here's the key: we can still observe that slower flow of time and recognize it as different from our own.

If time itself were actually moving slower in that other location (space, near black holes, etc.), we wouldn’t be able to logically perceive the difference. From the perspective of objective time, everything in that location would appear to move normally. We would lack the ability to understand that time was moving differently at all because we would be experiencing that altered time as our baseline. In other words, the very fact that we can observe and measure a difference in time flow shows that what we’re seeing is a subjective experience of time, not time itself.

This theory allows for the possibility of thinking logically about time, recognizing when time appears to move differently, and explaining those differences through subjective time—while objective time continues to flow uniformly and keeps all events in sync across the universe.

How to freeze time: The Infinite Reaction Time and Objective Time

To illustrate the distinction between subjective time and objective time even further, consider the following thought experiment: A fly’s reaction time is much faster than a human’s, making time seem slower for the fly. Now, imagine a being whose reaction time is infinitely fast.

Here’s the crucial point: If a being’s awareness of time speeds up to infinity, it would freeze objective time entirely. If someone has a super fast awareness of time for 5 minutes, then you could argue that it would just take a really long subjective time for that person to get to the end of those 5 minutes like a normal person can. But if they had an infinitely fast awareness of time, then they would never reach the end of those 5 minutes since it would stretch on for infinity (i.e. frozen time), so therefore yourself reaching the end of those 5 minutes would logically contradict their awareness of time being frozen.

Added explanation for those who still don't get it:
Imagine two people start at the same point in time, both with the same awareness or perception of time. Then, these two individuals go their separate ways, experiencing different physical conditions that alter their subjective awareness of time. After some time, they return to the same location, and their awareness of time becomes synchronized again.

Now, let’s introduce a third person who observes the entire process. This observer notices that even though the two people experienced time differently while apart, they are back in sync once reunited. From the third person’s perspective, it becomes clear that only their awareness of time changed, not time itself. In other words, time did not bend or stretch; instead, their individual experiences of time were affected by their different environments.

Now, let’s consider another situation where events themselves slow down along with the individuals' awareness of time—maybe they are in a region of space where everything seems to be happening more slowly. The third observer would still not conclude that time itself had slowed down. Instead, they would reason that these individuals are in an environment (like an energy field or gravitational influence) that is slowing down both the events and their perception of time. The observer, who has a broader perspective, knows that Objective Time—the constant, underlying flow of time—has not changed. It’s just that this particular environment has affected the individuals' subjective experience of time.

This highlights the value of Objective Time: it allows us to understand how everything remains connected and synchronized, even when different observers experience time differently.

When we hear about time slowing down in extreme environments, such as near a black hole, we understand that subjective awareness of time might differ—time might seem to pass more slowly for an individual in that environment. However, from the perspective of Objective Time, we realize that the flow of time itself hasn’t actually slowed. It’s just that the person in that environment is unaware of the full passage of time due to their altered perception.

In summary:
- Time itself remains constant (Objective Time), keeping everything connected.
- Changes in time perception are due to changes in awareness of time, not time itself.
- From a third-person perspective, it’s clear that environmental factors (like gravity or motion) affect awareness, but they don’t alter the fundamental flow of time.
 
Last edited:

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Time moves to the future. Clocks do not measure pure time, but rather clock time is a function of changes in space; space-time. Clock use more of an energy analogy; wavelength/frequency, where time cycles and repeats like a wave. It is 12 o'clock twice a day if we use a 12 hour clock. But the propagation of time is not a 2-D wave, but a 1-D line; time line. We are born, age and die. We do not act like a clock and start a new day at death, unless you believe in reincarnation or afterlife. Reaction time is about movement in space to get out of the way in the shortest time.

A timeline is better explained with an entropy model instead of an energy wave model. Entropy, like a time-line, only goes spontaneously in one direction; increases to the future. Entropy can be made to decrease, but this needs outside help. Left to entropy's own devices it can only increase to the future, similar to time. We could need a machine to go back in time, but we can go forward in time without doing anything or needing a machine.

I invented an entropy clock that can be used to better approximate 1-D time lines. I call it the dead fish clock. I take a freshly caught fish and place it on the kitchen counter. When it starts to stink, due to decay, we call that a time-line unit. This time-line unit is temperature dependent. If I freeze the kitchen the dead fish clock will slow and may even stop decaying; never stink. If I make the room warmer it can decay faster thereby altering the unit of the time-line so it decreases. It is almost like Special Relativity, in the sense that temperature is also connected to velocity; atomic and molecular kinetic energy; 1/2MV2.

If I use another fish, under the same conditions, it may not express the same time unit. The dead fish clock is not a wave that repeats. Entropy add complexity and change. Like humans after we are born, we do not all have the same expiration date. Time in this sense is more like a potential, and different bodies can burn the candle from one or both ends, and use up their time line or time potential faster or slower. Heat and cold can impact this rate, since heat is needed to increase entropy and can speed up the use of time potential.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
View attachment 98179
(Picture created by an AI)

Did you know that a fly’s reaction time is much faster than a human’s? In fact, it’s more than 12 times faster than that of a human. Yes, to a fly, time seems to be moving more than 12 times slower than it does to us. Thanks to modern technology, we can easily understand what this seems like just by watching a video more than 12 times slower than we normally would (assuming you have average tastes in media and are not already watching videos extremely slow all of the time).

Anyway… What if there existed a being which had a reaction time that was infinitely times faster than ours? Well, to them, time would be fully frozen. But wait a moment, if time were fully frozen to them, why would we still have awareness of time moving normally? Because if time is always frozen to them, that would logically contradict us being ahead of them in time. Thus, since time is still flowing normally to us, no being has an infinitely times faster reaction time compared to us, and the way to stop time, would be through someone gaining an infinitely times faster reaction time.

Then someone might argue that they could potentially suddenly stop having this infinitely times faster reaction time, which is why it’s possible that they had it at some point. But for them to suddenly stop having an infinitely times faster reaction time requires the movement of time, which would be frozen in that case, thus impossible for them to suddenly stop having this infinitely times faster reaction time. So time would freeze the moment they gain this infinitely times faster reaction time, and it would be stuck frozen forever.

(I came up with this idea myself, but I don't know if someone already discovered this, that you can freeze time forever this way, but it would hardly surprise me if someone did, given how simplistic it is)

Time is reletive to the observer. The faster one travels the slower time passes for the traveller. Until one reaches the speed of light where time stops. Because of this relativistic effect a photon cannot experience time
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Yes, to a fly, time seems to be moving more than 12 times slower than it does to us.
I don't think it's that simple. Reaction time isn't just a function of the senses, but also the mental processing and physical responses that are triggered. I expect flies (and other species with better reaction times than humans) are quicker on the second two aspects, if only due to less complexity. I'm sure flies general perception of the world is different to ours, and part of that could be perceived as being similar to time being slower, but not necessarily consistently and not without a whole load of other factors.

Anyway… What if there existed a being which had a reaction time that was infinitely times faster than ours? Well, to them, time would be fully frozen.
No, because "infinitely times faster" would still result in a non-zero reaction time. The perception of time metaphor wouldn't be frozen time, just time moving exceptionally slowly.

You couldn't have a zero reaction time (and thus "frozen time") because that wouldn't be a reaction any more. Sorry.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
You're saying stuff, but not explaining how that applies to my post. Did you even fully read my post, or did you just skim read it like the one who commented before you??

If i hadn't read it i wouldn't have answered it. I thought freezing time (stopping time) was what this was about. If you don't understand how the science of my post works in stopping time then it's something you need to think about.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
.... What if there existed a being which had a reaction time that was infinitely times faster than ours? Well, to them, time would be fully frozen.
Only when they observed the reference frame with stopped time.
The observer would still experience time passing.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
No, you need to actually explain it in detail, because I believe you're incorrect, and would like to point out to you specifically how. You're claiming something, you're not explaining it, in fact, you seem to be avoiding doing so, as though you understand you'll be proven wrong if you do so.

Me, wrong?, no you'll have to blame Einstein for that.

And i thought it was explained pretty well, perhaps you didn't read my post properly.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Why?? Explain why, don't just assert that they must still experience time passing without any explanation.
I thought it was obvious.
Explanation....
Working from your premises, the entity observes
that time stopped in some reference frame.
Let's assume that time stopped for this entity.
If so, then there can be no mental & physical
processes of observation....because if time
stopped, then nothing happens. Why?
If something happened (eg, something moved,
eg, electrons, information), then this would
experience the infamous "arrow of time".
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
You're saying that because some famous person said so, it must be right, without actually using their knowledge as though it were your own to explain why I'm wrong, that's not how you debate, it's how you give up debating.

Did i or did i not say " time is reletive to the observer" ? You think Einstein is wrong then you rewrite the science books
You debate by knowing something about the subject and this is a philosophy thread not a debate thread
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Did i or did i not say " time is reletive to the observer" ? You think Einstein is wrong then you rewrite the science books
You debate by knowing something about the subject and this is a philosophy thread not a debate thread
Aye, Einstein wasn't correct just because he was Einstein.
His work flows logically from observable premises.
(I understand special relativity, but general relativity
is far above my pay grade.)
 

ChatwithGod

ChatwithGod.ai
Freezing time in a literal sense isn't possible according to our understanding of physics and time. However, you can 'freeze' moments in your mind by fully appreciating and living in the present. Psalm 46:10 says, "Be still, and know that I am God."
 

Echogem222

Active Member
Aye, Einstein wasn't correct just because he was Einstein.
His work flows logically from observable premises.
(I understand special relativity, but general relativity
is far above my pay grade.)
Did i or did i not say " time is reletive to the observer" ? You think Einstein is wrong then you rewrite the science books
You debate by knowing something about the subject and this is a philosophy thread not a debate thread
There, I just changed my original post to explain why Einstein was wrong about time.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There, I just changed my original post to explain why Einstein was wrong about time.
Your edit is wrong, Time can be objectively
measured to verify general relativity. GPS
is an example. A pair of very accurate clocks
traveling at different speeds is another.

True Objective Time:
- Objective Time is the underlying, universal flow that synchronizes all events across the entire universe.
- It’s not tied to any specific perception, location, or environment—it just is.
- This universal time is why, despite different subjective experiences of time (due to speed, gravity, etc.), all events in the universe remain connected and in sync. This is the true objective nature of time, which underlies everything.
Do you have an experiment
that could verify this claim,
& disprove general relativity?
 
Last edited:

Echogem222

Active Member
Your edit is wrong, Time can be objectively
measured to verify general relativity. GPS
is an example. A pair of very accurate clocks
traveling at different speeds is another.


Do you have an experiment
that could verify this claim,
& disprove general relativity?
I just added another section at the bottom for even more clarity, but I'll copy and paste it here:

Added explanation for those who still don't get it:
Imagine two people start at the same point in time, both with the same awareness or perception of time. Then, these two individuals go their separate ways, experiencing different physical conditions that alter their subjective awareness of time. After some time, they return to the same location, and their awareness of time becomes synchronized again.

Now, let’s introduce a third person who observes the entire process. This observer notices that even though the two people experienced time differently while apart, they are back in sync once reunited. From the third person’s perspective, it becomes clear that only their awareness of time changed, not time itself. In other words, time did not bend or stretch; instead, their individual experiences of time were affected by their different environments.

Now, let’s consider another situation where events themselves slow down along with the individuals' awareness of time—maybe they are in a region of space where everything seems to be happening more slowly. The third observer would still not conclude that time itself had slowed down. Instead, they would reason that these individuals are in an environment (like an energy field or gravitational influence) that is slowing down both the events and their perception of time. The observer, who has a broader perspective, knows that Objective Time—the constant, underlying flow of time—has not changed. It’s just that this particular environment has affected the individuals' subjective experience of time.

This highlights the value of Objective Time: it allows us to understand how everything remains connected and synchronized, even when different observers experience time differently.

When we hear about time slowing down in extreme environments, such as near a black hole, we understand that subjective awareness of time might differ—time might seem to pass more slowly for an individual in that environment. However, from the perspective of Objective Time, we realize that the flow of time itself hasn’t actually slowed. It’s just that the person in that environment is unaware of the full passage of time due to their altered perception.

In summary:
- Time itself remains constant (Objective Time), keeping everything connected.
- Changes in time perception are due to changes in awareness of time, not time itself.
- From a third-person perspective, it’s clear that environmental factors (like gravity or motion) affect awareness, but they don’t alter the fundamental flow of time.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
View attachment 98211
(Picture created by an AI [on the left side is objective time and on the right side is subjective time])

Einstein’s Theory of Time:
Einstein’s theory of relativity fundamentally changed how we think about time. In his model, time is not absolute—it’s relative to the observer's motion or gravitational environment. This leads to phenomena like time dilation, where time appears to slow down for an observer traveling at high speeds or near a massive object.

In special relativity, the faster an object moves relative to the speed of light, the slower time passes for that object. In general relativity, the closer an object is to a source of gravity, the slower time appears to pass due to the warping of spacetime. These effects have been measured and confirmed through experiments like atomic clocks on airplanes and GPS satellites in orbit.

Why This View Is Flawed:
While Einstein’s theory accurately predicts the effects of time dilation and the role gravity plays, it relies on the assumption that time itself is changing. But what if the slowing of time isn’t due to time itself bending or stretching, but rather how we experience time under different conditions? This creates a key misunderstanding: what Einstein describes might not be time in the truest sense, but rather subjective time—a localized, perceptual phenomenon based on the observer’s environment.

Now, let's redefine this concept with a deeper distinction between true objective time and the subjective time Einstein's theory touches on:

True Objective Time:
- Objective Time is the underlying, universal flow that synchronizes all events across the entire universe.
- It’s not tied to any specific perception, location, or environment—it just is.
- This universal time is why, despite different subjective experiences of time (due to speed, gravity, etc.), all events in the universe remain connected and in sync. This is the true objective nature of time, which underlies everything.

Subjective Time (Including on Earth):
- Even what we think of as time on Earth is still subjective because it’s only how we experience time within the specific conditions of Earth (gravity, motion, etc.).
- Different places in the universe, due to different conditions (speed, gravity, etc.), have different subjective experiences of time. This is why we see things like time dilation in relativity—it's not time itself changing, but our subjective experience of it changing.
Why It’s All Connected:
- Despite the differences in subjective time at different locations (Earth, space, near black holes, etc.), the true objective time flows uniformly throughout the universe, keeping everything in sync. This is why events everywhere are connected, even if the subjective experience of time is different.

Refinement of the Clock Idea:
- The clocks we use, whether on Earth or in space, are still limited by our subjective experience of time.
- In space, if clocks were artificially sped up to match Earth’s time, they would still only reflect the subjective time of Earth or space, not the objective nature of time itself, which transcends all local perceptions.
The Core:
- Objective Time refers to the true, universal flow that keeps everything synchronized, independent of where you are or how fast you’re moving.
- Subjective Time (whether on Earth or in space) is how we experience that universal flow in our specific conditions, but it’s not the ultimate truth of time itself.

Why Believe My Theory of Time Instead?
The strength of this theory lies in logical reasoning. On Earth, we experience what we consider to be the "normal" flow of time. When we observe that time moves more slowly in space (through experiments or calculations), we are logically aware of a different subjective time at play. But here's the key: we can still observe that slower flow of time and recognize it as different from our own.

If time itself were actually moving slower in that other location (space, near black holes, etc.), we wouldn’t be able to logically perceive the difference. From the perspective of objective time, everything in that location would appear to move normally. We would lack the ability to understand that time was moving differently at all because we would be experiencing that altered time as our baseline. In other words, the very fact that we can observe and measure a difference in time flow shows that what we’re seeing is a subjective experience of time, not time itself.

This theory allows for the possibility of thinking logically about time, recognizing when time appears to move differently, and explaining those differences through subjective time—while objective time continues to flow uniformly and keeps all events in sync across the universe.

How to freeze time: The Infinite Reaction Time and Objective Time

To illustrate the distinction between subjective time and objective time even further, consider the following thought experiment: A fly’s reaction time is much faster than a human’s, making time seem slower for the fly. Now, imagine a being whose reaction time is infinitely fast.

Here’s the crucial point: If a being’s awareness of time speeds up to infinity, it would freeze objective time entirely. If someone has a super fast awareness of time for 5 minutes, then you could argue that it would just take a really long subjective time for that person to get to the end of those 5 minutes like a normal person can. But if they had an infinitely fast awareness of time, then they would never reach the end of those 5 minutes since it would stretch on for infinity (i.e. frozen time), so therefore yourself reaching the end of those 5 minutes would logically contradict their awareness of time being frozen.

Added explanation for those who still don't get it:
Imagine two people start at the same point in time, both with the same awareness or perception of time. Then, these two individuals go their separate ways, experiencing different physical conditions that alter their subjective awareness of time. After some time, they return to the same location, and their awareness of time becomes synchronized again.

Now, let’s introduce a third person who observes the entire process. This observer notices that even though the two people experienced time differently while apart, they are back in sync once reunited. From the third person’s perspective, it becomes clear that only their awareness of time changed, not time itself. In other words, time did not bend or stretch; instead, their individual experiences of time were affected by their different environments.

Now, let’s consider another situation where events themselves slow down along with the individuals' awareness of time—maybe they are in a region of space where everything seems to be happening more slowly. The third observer would still not conclude that time itself had slowed down. Instead, they would reason that these individuals are in an environment (like an energy field or gravitational influence) that is slowing down both the events and their perception of time. The observer, who has a broader perspective, knows that Objective Time—the constant, underlying flow of time—has not changed. It’s just that this particular environment has affected the individuals' subjective experience of time.

This highlights the value of Objective Time: it allows us to understand how everything remains connected and synchronized, even when different observers experience time differently.

When we hear about time slowing down in extreme environments, such as near a black hole, we understand that subjective awareness of time might differ—time might seem to pass more slowly for an individual in that environment. However, from the perspective of Objective Time, we realize that the flow of time itself hasn’t actually slowed. It’s just that the person in that environment is unaware of the full passage of time due to their altered perception.

In summary:
- Time itself remains constant (Objective Time), keeping everything connected.
- Changes in time perception are due to changes in awareness of time, not time itself.
- From a third-person perspective, it’s clear that environmental factors (like gravity or motion) affect awareness, but they don’t alter the fundamental flow of time.
What prediction does your hypothesis make, that contradicts SR or GR, and what experiment can we make to falsify it?
 

Echogem222

Active Member
What prediction does your hypothesis make, that contradicts SR or GR, and what experiment can we make to falsify it?
This isn't science, it's philosophy, what part of that do you not understand? (i.e. the philosophy of science)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
This isn't science, it's philosophy, what part of that do you not understand? (i.e. the philosophy of science)
Then let me put it this way: if your philosophy of time doesn't comport to reality, doesn't that tell you that you made an error in reasoning?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There, I just changed my original post to explain why Einstein was wrong about time.

No he wasn't, every experiment carried out to test relitivy has shown Einstein was correct.
In every application in which relitivity is used it is found to be accurate.
Feel free to think whatever you like, your thought on the subject is wrong
 

Echogem222

Active Member
Then let me put it this way: if your philosophy of time doesn't comport to reality, doesn't that tell you that you made an error in reasoning?
Correct, but it doesn't, so there is no issue. Einstein's theory of time applies only to subjective time, it does not apply to objective time, thus, no issues.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Correct, but it doesn't, so there is no issue. Einstein's theory of time applies only to subjective time, it does not apply to objective time, thus, no issues.
So, you have a hypothesis, sorry, philosophy, that doesn't change anything we could ever experience, or falsify, using data or reasoning? Where is the worth in that?
 
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