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How To Have Conversations When You Disagree

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.
I can tell you what doesn't work: the Socratic Method.

Asking people about their opinions with inquisitive questions and asking them how they got there is a sure way to end a discussion. (It doesn't derail in a shouting match either but that's a small comfort.)
People instinctively know when they can't defend their position against serious questioning and they'll simply stop answering your questions.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I had started a thread about it, about a month ago :)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think it depends on the person.
In my opinion it's absurd that people think we are all equal, as if we were clones.
We are all unique and different.
For instance, I adore debate. I am very outspoken in real life, and my friends are outspoken as well. But we are still friends. And I also have friends who vote for Italian dems. I do.
And sometimes we make jokes about each other's political affiliations.

I think debate on forums is fruitful: you only need to be respectful and be ready to listen to what the interlocutor has to say.
 
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mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.

According to the teaching books my wife have on the subject, it is not that simple.
It includes time and the ability to make a personal relationship with a person. Then you might and that is just might get somewhere. But if you can't, then there are also techniques you can use.

But in general it involves the following: To accept another human as human and don't judge them for their worth, but still explain to them that you do it differently.
In practice it has a limit for those humans, who how they doing do right and wrong as universal/true/rational/objective or any other variant to that effect.
Yes, you can learn to do critical thinking about values as for in the end good and bad, but you can't avoid having values that are without truth or any of those other variant.
So as you note, for those who believe that, you are in a sense dead in the water, because they in general consider their worth including to that they hold the truth and so on. And the moment they realize that they might have to reconsider, they go feelings and attack or lock up and defend.

So here is an example of that in philosophy:
"The first of these claims asserts the relativity of truth, obviously an essential element in this form of relativism. Oddly, though, this is not the most controversial part of the doctrine. After all, even committed realists might be willing to conceive of objective truth as equivalent to “true from a God’s eye point of view” or “true from the standpoint of the cosmos”. It is this second claim, the denial of any metaphysically privileged standpoint, that most provokes relativism’s critics. A brief look at the role of this thesis in the thought of three leading relativists–Kuhn, Rorty, and Foucault—will help reveal why it should be so controversial."

In short both for truth and what the world really is, a lot of people connect their self worth for that they know the correct version of understanding the world and what it is.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
We focus on the objective facts of the matter that can be demonstrated, and lay aside subjectivity.

If we dispense with our personal feelings on the matter, including our opinions, preferences, and (where possible) our values, then we can have cooperative discourse towards understanding the truth of a given topic, providing our evidence and the dispassionate arguments we have based on that evidence.

Reject humanity entirely, including our own humanity. Focus only on what can be rationally proven or justified. Then you can get to the heart of the truth of the matter. As soon as we abandon reason or lose sight of the goal of finding objective truth, we fail in our responsibilities to the conversation.

There is a time for discussing values and opinions, but we have to keep in mind that these are subjects that are nowhere near as easy to come to agreement on. There are ways to discuss them and investigate what our moral axioms are, compare and contrast different ethical systems, and so on in a more detached manner that forgets the people behind the arguments. This is what is done in high-level ethical debates in academic philosophy, for instance. It's just a much more difficult subject to discuss without getting our emotions involved.

In either case, as soon as you reject that there even can be an absolute truth that discussion will help you find, then step out of the conversation entirely. You're no longer contributing anything. Agree to disagree and stfu.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
In either case, as soon as you reject that there even can be an absolute truth that discussion will help you find, then step out of the conversation entirely. You're no longer contributing anything. Agree to disagree and stfu.
This is not a university. This is a social media.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Yeah, that's why trying to have rational discussions on here is essentially a pointless waste of time, but that's what the OP was asking about.
Actually I see rational peaceful discussions here, most of the times. :)
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
We focus on the objective facts of the matter that can be demonstrated, and lay aside subjectivity.

If we dispense with our personal feelings on the matter, including our opinions, preferences, and (where possible) our values, then we can have cooperative discourse towards understanding the truth of a given topic, providing our evidence and the dispassionate arguments we have based on that evidence.

Reject humanity entirely, including our own humanity. Focus only on what can be rationally proven or justified. Then you can get to the heart of the truth of the matter. As soon as we abandon reason or lose sight of the goal of finding objective truth, we fail in our responsibilities to the conversation.

There is a time for discussing values and opinions, but we have to keep in mind that these are subjects that are nowhere near as easy to come to agreement on. There are ways to discuss them and investigate what our moral axioms are, compare and contrast different ethical systems, and so on in a more detached manner that forgets the people behind the arguments. This is what is done in high-level ethical debates in academic philosophy, for instance. It's just a much more difficult subject to discuss without getting our emotions involved.

In either case, as soon as you reject that there even can be an absolute truth that discussion will help you find, then step out of the conversation entirely. You're no longer contributing anything. Agree to disagree and stfu.

So with objective truth and only that please give evidence for the fact, that you deciding what our responsibilities are, is an objective fact.

There is only objective truth.
There is no objective truth.
Both above are too simple and it is a bit more complicated than that.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.

There are probably numerous ways, although one thing that could improve is in people taking other posters at face value, instead of trying to turn it into an inquisition.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.
Sticking to discussing and comparing evidence for differing viewpoints and clearing up any mischaracterization of respective positions
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Folks on this site come from many different backgrounds and worldviews. And very often the threads - especially those about religion and politics, of course - just become vicious food fights. People talk at each other and past each other instead of with each other. I'm guilty of this, too.

How do we have more mature conversations with people we disagree with on these issues? If your answer is, "It can't be done because X group of people are just beyond reason/evil/blind/stupid/etc," this thread isn't for you, so please don't reply.

I'd like to hear some ideas from members about your strategies for having better conversations: ones where both sides feel heard, respected, they understand one another's perspectives more clearly, and where disagreement does not give way to malice.

I look forward to your wisdom.

I try to admit when I am wrong, find some common ground, and be honest about where I am coming from. I have found this works well with a few folks on here with very different ideologies than my own.

I am glad there are folks with different ideologies. I get more out of the discussions and debates. I sometimes get emotional in my responses and can lash out but try to acknowledge that and move on.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Religious people seem to have a whole set of realities that many others find irrelevant. Religious discussion involves value systems, so expect emotions because people have personal investment, and lived advancement in their religious convictions. Religious people are not going to drop their assessments of reality for a way of thinking that's else and different for no good reason.

For me all ways of thinking have roadblocks and limits as to how far they can go. So at those roadblocks it may not be expedient enough to keep on going with a debate.

Then their is the language barrier where religious people are going to have else definitions for certain words. Terminology is important.

Tangible evidenced based thinkers are going to simply not pursue any spiritual line of thinking very far unless they have succinct, concise expression.

A discussion/debate is a commitment of time and energy. So a goal worthy of pursuit is where to start.

Non religious people are not going to want to think thoroughly through a religious mind often enough.

From experience to expression there's a lot to unpack.

I think it's unhealthy to be hung up on one way of thinking.

Asking for tangible evidence for a spiritual claim isn't going to go very far.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A discussion/debate is a commitment of time and energy. So a goal worthy of pursuit is where to start.

Non religious people are not going to want to think thoroughly through a religious mind often enough.

I'm not so sure about that. Non-religious people might have had religious minds at one point - or vice versa. At least in America, I think the cultural default has been for most people to be raised in some sort of religious belief from a very young age. Although that may be changing in more recent years.
 
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