How to not sound conceited about the Bible making sense?

[Anttjuan]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too, but doing so would still seemingly have the opposite effect on those who still see no sense in it even after explanations are given. To them, it would just look like I’m rubbing in their face the fact that something obvious to me is oblivious to them, when that’s not the desired outcome.

Or even if I respond in an understanding manner to their lack of understanding, it still comes off as if I’m looking down at them as me being the “smarter” one, when that’s not the case.

Are there people who aren’t insulted from not grasping something that someone else has a greater understanding of?

For example, if there were someone way better than me in chess and I couldn’t understand their explanation about something no matter how many times they explained it to me, I could accept that they understand something that I can’t grasp yet, without feeling insulted. Are there any people like this too when it comes to the Bible?

I personally never take offense when someone thinks it’s me who does not understand the Bible. At that point, I would like to ask questions if they allow, but I don’t see why things ever need to end in personal attacks or feeling personally attacked over something like that.

What is the correct approach to explaining something that someone asks that others don’t understand in the hopes that they understand? Unless it’s just a risk to expect someone to be insulted and to react if the result is that they don’t understand in the end.

 

[GoodAttention]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too, but doing so would still seemingly have the opposite effect on those who still see no sense in it after explanations are given. To them, it would just look like I’m rubbing in their face the fact that something obvious to me is oblivious to them, when that’s not the desired outcome.

Or even if I respond in an understanding manner to their lack of understanding, it still comes off as if I’m looking down at them as a “smarter” one, when that’s not the case.

Are there people who aren’t insulted from not grasping something that someone else has a greater understanding of?

For example, if there were someone way better than me in chess and I couldn’t understand their explanation about something no matter how many times they explained it to me, I could accept that they understand something that I can’t grasp yet, without feeling insulted. Are there any people like this too when it comes to the Bible?

I personally never take offense when someone thinks it’s me who does not understand the Bible. At that point, I would like to ask questions if they allow, but I don’t see why things ever need to end in personally attacking or feeling personally attacked over something like that.

What is the correct approach to explaining something that someone asks that others don’t understand in the hopes that they understand? Unless it’s just a risk to expect someone to be insulted and to react if the result is that they don’t understand in the end.

Don’t stress, say what you want.

I guarantee that for every person who is insulted there are ten who took something away from it, and most of them aren’t even members.

 

[Heyo]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too, but doing so would still seemingly have the opposite effect on those who still see no sense in it after explanations are given. To them, it would just look like I’m rubbing in their face the fact that something obvious to me is oblivious to them, when that’s not the desired outcome.

Or even if I respond in an understanding manner to their lack of understanding, it still comes off as if I’m looking down at them as a “smarter” one, when that’s not the case.

Are there people who aren’t insulted from not grasping something that someone else has a greater understanding of?

For example, if there were someone way better than me in chess and I couldn’t understand their explanation about something no matter how many times they explained it to me, I could accept that they understand something that I can’t grasp yet, without feeling insulted. Are there any people like this too when it comes to the Bible?

I personally never take offense when someone thinks it’s me who does not understand the Bible. At that point, I would like to ask questions if they allow, but I don’t see why things ever need to end in personally attacking or feeling personally attacked over something like that.

What is the correct approach to explaining something that someone asks that others don’t understand in the hopes that they understand? Unless it’s just a risk to expect someone to be insulted and to react if the result is that they don’t understand in the end.

I don't understand quantum physics, and I'm grateful for all people who have a better understanding, and take it on themselves to explain it.

I'm not interested in the Bible and I won't participate in discussions about it, so I won't be insulted or insult you.

But I'm interested in lots of things, and I'll debate them when they come up. And I'm often in the position of greater understanding, and then I'm seen as condescending and arrogant. The thing is that I don't have a paper to show that I've thought about things. I'll have to show my knowledge.
If you understand the Bible, show it. Cite your sources, make clear, logically sound arguments, answer questions (even if they seem trivial to you).
And if you meet a person who has greater understanding than you, recognize and honour that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me.

"Do unto others ..."

If I hoped to tell you that the daoine sídhe (the Faeries) does make sense to me, how might I best do so? How effective might that be?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too, but doing so would still seemingly have the opposite effect on those who still see no sense in it after explanations are given. To them, it would just look like I’m rubbing in their face the fact that something obvious to me is oblivious to them, when that’s not the desired outcome.

There are multiple ways the Bible can "make sense." For instance, I think that the contradictions, absurdities, and cruelty in the Bible make sense because it was written in a pre-scientific age by many different authors over centuries.

... so if you want to tell people that the Bible "makes sense," you aren't being clear unless you also explain the paradigm you have in mind and in which you think the Bible makes sense.

Or even if I respond in an understanding manner to their lack of understanding, it still comes off as if I’m looking down at them as a “smarter” one, when that’s not the case.

If anything, assuming that people who don't accept the Bible - Edit: or who don't accept your opinions about the Bible - must not understand the Bible will come off as arrogant and ignorant.

 

[Audie]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too, but doing so would still seemingly have the opposite effect on those who still see no sense in it after explanations are given. To them, it would just look like I’m rubbing in their face the fact that something obvious to me is oblivious to them, when that’s not the desired outcome.

Or even if I respond in an understanding manner to their lack of understanding, it still comes off as if I’m looking down at them as a “smarter” one, when that’s not the case.

Are there people who aren’t insulted from not grasping something that someone else has a greater understanding of?

For example, if there were someone way better than me in chess and I couldn’t understand their explanation about something no matter how many times they explained it to me, I could accept that they understand something that I can’t grasp yet, without feeling insulted. Are there any people like this too when it comes to the Bible?

I personally never take offense when someone thinks it’s me who does not understand the Bible. At that point, I would like to ask questions if they allow, but I don’t see why things ever need to end in personally attacking or feeling personally attacked over something like that.

What is the correct approach to explaining something that someone asks that others don’t understand in the hopes that they understand? Unless it’s just a risk to expect someone to be insulted and to react if the result is that they don’t understand in the end.

Do you “understand” that there really was a flood and P=3.0?

 

[Tamino]

Let’s say it actually does make sense to me. Is it ever okay to actually say it makes sense to me, or is that too bold a statement & should instead make it appear as if I’m in the same boat as most who struggle to understand it?

The important bit is the "to me". As long as you phrase it as you personal perspective, I'm totally fine with it. Good for you.
We can still have a friendly debate about our reasons and arguments, but I can totally accept that this is your understanding.

Are there people who aren’t insulted from not grasping something that someone else has a greater understanding of?

For example, if there were someone way better than me in chess and I couldn’t understand their explanation about something no matter how many times they explained it to me, I could accept that they understand something that I can’t grasp yet, without feeling insulted.

See, but in your chess example, the person who's better at chess can easily prove that, by winning against me. Then I may still not understand HOW they did it, but I can accept it because clearly, their understanding of chess is proven to be more effective than mine.

In the example of the Bible, the "My understanding is greater" is a claim that you cannot easily prove, right?
How would you demonstrate that your understanding is better, deeper or more correct?
As I see it, you could try only go by a scientific understanding and demonstrate your analysis of the texts, based on all available data (languages, variants, origin, authorship,transmission, parallels...)

I would think the solution to not sound conceited is to share what I’ve learned so that others understand it too

Yes. Do that, please. But be prepared to be challenged on your logic, that's how scientific inquiry works ...

 

[Audie]

There are multiple ways the Bible can "make sense." For instance, I think that the contradictions, absurdities, and cruelty in the Bible make sense because it was written in a pre-scientific age by many different authors over centuries.

... so if you want to tell people that the Bible "makes sense," you aren't being clear unless you also explain the paradigm you have in mind and in which you think the Bible makes sense.



If anything, assuming that people who don't accept the Bible - Edit: or who don't accept your opinions about the Bible - must not understand the Bible will come off as arrogant and ignorant.

Essentially the question was, how can i
successfully present as what I ain’t?

 

[Anttjuan]

Don’t stress, say what you want.

I guarantee that for every person who is insulted there are ten who took something away from it, and most of them aren’t even members.

If that’s true, that would be nice. But some of the “ten” should at least make that known.

 

[Anttjuan]

I don't understand quantum physics, and I'm grateful for all people who have a better understanding, and take it on themselves to explain it.

I'm not interested in the Bible and I won't participate in discussions about it, so I won't be insulted or insult you.

But I'm interested in lots of things, and I'll debate them when they come up. And I'm often in the position of greater understanding, and then I'm seen as condescending and arrogant. The thing is that I don't have a paper to show that I've thought about things. I'll have to show my knowledge.
If you understand the Bible, show it. Cite your sources, make clear, logically sound arguments, answer questions (even if they seem trivial to you).
And if you meet a person who has greater understanding than you, recognize and honour that.

So if I understood you correctly, you won’t participate in discussions about the Bible with me?

What brings you to this website if the Bible is not among your interests, especially considering how the Bible is like an elephant in the room wherever religion is discussed? Unless your interest in religion is in anything EXCEPT the Bible, which would be pretty hard to ignore in religious forums honestly.

 

[Anttjuan]

"Do unto others ..."

If I hoped to tell you that the daoine sídhe (the Faeries) does make sense to me, how might I best do so? How effective might that be?

Maybe you can show how it could bring value for someone to understand it as well. And to increase effectiveness, I think answering the whys could help with that, such as why it works, why it can be trusted, etc.

These are just top of my head responses to that.

 

[Anttjuan]

There are multiple ways the Bible can "make sense." For instance, I think that the contradictions, absurdities, and cruelty in the Bible make sense because it was written in a pre-scientific age by many different authors over centuries.

... so if you want to tell people that the Bible "makes sense," you aren't being clear unless you also explain the paradigm you have in mind and in which you think the Bible makes sense.



If anything, assuming that people who don't accept the Bible - Edit: or who don't accept your opinions about the Bible - must not understand the Bible will come off as arrogant and ignorant.

Case in point. You mentioned “contradictions, absurdity, and cruelty.” The Bible is illogical to you whereas I can actually see logic in it. That’s what I meant by “making sense.” Having said that, I understand where you’re coming from in your view of it.

 

[Anttjuan]

Do you “understand” that there really was a flood and P=3.0?

I don’t know what P=3.0 means.

 

[GoodAttention]

If that’s true, that would be nice. But some of the “ten” should at least make that known.

Took me a long time to become a member here.

Now I argue with pensioners and heroes that don’t wear capes.

 

[Anttjuan]

Do you “understand” that there really was a flood

The important bit is the "to me". As long as you phrase it as you personal perspective, I'm totally fine with it. Good for you.
We can still have a friendly debate about our reasons and arguments, but I can totally accept that this is your understanding.


See, but in your chess example, the person who's better at chess can easily prove that, by winning against me. Then I may still not understand HOW they did it, but I can accept it because clearly, their understanding of chess is proven to be more effective than mine.

In the example of the Bible, the "My understanding is greater" is a claim that you cannot easily prove, right?
How would you demonstrate that your understanding is better, deeper or more correct?
As I see it, you could try only go by a scientific understanding and demonstrate your analysis of the texts, based on all available data (languages, variants, origin, authorship,transmission, parallels...)


Yes. Do that, please. But be prepared to be challenged on your logic, that's how scientific inquiry works ...

Okay yes, I have no problem saying that it is my perspective. I’m glad that it sits well with you. In fact, it’s better that it’s a perspective than not, because that gives room to compare results with others that do not share that perspective. Not that I purposely keep my perspective hidden, but at the same time, I do want to see how it performs.

Without getting too into it or trying to quote Scripture to you, the Bible makes predictions that people with biblical faith will be able to resist temptations to do evil when the evil time comes, compared to those who don’t have it. Even if faced with the threat of death. Regardless of whatever or whenever that grand “evil time” is, one should naturally expect to see miniature fulfillments of that prediction during “mini-evil times” or temptations if the grand one is to hold true.

Of course, predictions aren’t limited to just avoidance of evil, but also doing good which, to those with Biblical understanding & faith, could be at levels or areas that others cannot “compete” with, without a fanfare (not that it’s a competition, but I couldn’t find other words right now.) All things mostly within one’s nature too instead of an exertion of “force.”

While things are calm, everything appears equal of course. Not much difference between those with biblical faith & those without biblical faith as far as actions go. We both do good deeds and we both do bad deeds to about the same degree it might appear. But as we all know, there ARE situations that could bring out the worst in us. It’s situations like these where one could more easily see what sort of result their perspective on life has yielded.
Sorry to make this long, but its good that neither side has to be upset about anything. We both have perspectives and we have been granted the liberty to exercise and express them.

There’s more I could say, but one last thing that I should at least mention here before stopping is this: Biblical faith is not just lifestyle changes of the now. Those changes come as a result of what the expectation of the future is. That future expectation is a new government (aka kingdom) with the promotion of a way of life that works, backed up by real data & evidence, and which produces positive results—both inwardly and outwardly. This is extremely condensed of course, but if I don’t stop now, I’ll just keep going.

 

[Audie]

Okay yes, I have no problem saying that it is my perspective. I’m glad that it sits well with you. In fact, it’s better that it’s a perspective than not, because that gives room to compare results with others that do not share that perspective. Not that I purposely keep my perspective hidden, but at the same time, I do want to see how it performs.

Without getting too into it or trying to quote Scripture to you, the Bible makes predictions that people with biblical faith will be able to resist temptations to do evil when the evil time comes, compared to those who don’t have it. Even if faced with the threat of death. Regardless of whatever or whenever that grand “evil time” is, one should naturally expect to see miniature fulfillments of that prediction during “mini-evil times” or temptations if the grand one is to hold true.

Of course, predictions aren’t limited to just avoidance of evil, but also doing good which, to those with Biblical understanding & faith, could be at levels or areas that others cannot “compete” with, without a fanfare (not that it’s a competition, but I couldn’t find other words right now.) All things mostly within one’s nature too instead of an exertion of “force.”

While things are calm, everything appears equal of course. Not much difference between those with biblical faith & those without biblical faith as far as actions go. We both do good deeds and we both do bad deeds to about the same degree it might appear. But as we all know, there ARE situations that could bring out the worst in us. It’s situations like these where one could more easily see what sort of result their perspective on life has yielded.
Sorry to make this long, but its good that neither side has to be upset about anything. We both have perspectives and we have been granted the liberty to exercise and express them.

There’s more I could say, but one last thing that I should at least mention here before stopping is this: Biblical faith is not just lifestyle changes of the now. Those changes come as a result of what the expectation of the future is. That future expectation is a new government (aka kingdom) with the promotion of a way of life that works, backed up by real data & evidence, and which produces positive results—both inwardly and outwardly. This is extremely condensed of course, but if I don’t stop now, I’ll just keep going.

So many words, but no yes / no about flood.

 

[Audie]

I don’t know what P=3.0 means.

How about you concentrate on the flood whopper,
give an answer rather than a question.
Do that and I will tell you about bible- math.

 

[Heyo]

I don’t know what P=3.0 means.

It's a typo, she meant Pi(π).

 

[Heyo]

So if I understood you correctly, you won’t participate in discussions about the Bible with me?

What brings you to this website if the Bible is not among your interests, especially considering how the Bible is like an elephant in the room wherever religion is discussed? Unless your interest in religion is in anything EXCEPT the Bible, which would be pretty hard to ignore in religious forums honestly.

This site is international, and the Bible is only an elephant in the Western world.
Also, this site is primarily, but not exclusively, about religions.

My interest about belief is more philosophical and psychological. The bible is for me of the same interest as are the Vedas, Upanishads, Kemetism, Greek and Roman mythology, the Edda, Druidism, modern Paganism, New Age spiritualism, etc.
You see, how small of a slice the Bible now has?

For the Bible to have any more significance than Harry Potter (or any other work of (bad) fiction), you must have answered a few questions I don't have convincing answers, yet. That's the OPs where you may find me. I may have started some myself, like Are the Programmers Gods?

 

[Audie]

This site is international, and the Bible is only an elephant in the Western world.
Also, this site is primarily, but not exclusively, about religions.

My interest about belief is more philosophical and psychological. The bible is for me of the same interest as are the Vedas, Upanishads, Kemetism, Greek and Roman mythology, the Edda, Druidism, modern Paganism, New Age spiritualism, etc.
You see, how small of a slice the Bible now has?

For the Bible to have any more significance than Harry Potter (or any other work of (bad) fiction), you must have answered a few questions I don't have convincing answers, yet. That's the OPs where you may find me. I may have started some myself, like Are the Programmers Gods?

The bible / Christianity is not of much
importance in HK, far less in Mainland.

Such significance as it has is in its role
as a tool of western imperialism.

Our distaste for such is translated by some
here as “fear” of what the fancy to be
”Truth”.