How to rule with an iron fist

[idea]

So my husband was just asked to give the talk this coming Sunday (father’s day). I asked him what the topic was, and he said “how to rule with an iron fist”. I finally got it out of him that it was on "presiding over the family” – family proc stuff. So, as his “helpmeet”, and as he has a crazy week at work coming up, I said I would try and round up some talks/quotes etc. he could use.. which means I am getting online to ask for help…

What would you say if you were asked to give a talk on father’s day on how to preside in your family?

 

[zomg]

Ohhhh. What a fun talk! (I loathe the talks given on Mom/Dad Days when the speaker just sobs over how amazing their parent is *vomits*)

Anyway. I'll think about it and get back to you

PS- Ruling with an iron fist :biglaugh:

 

[Katzpur]

Ohhhh. What a fun talk! (I loathe the talks given on Mom/Dad Days when the speaker just sobs over how amazing their parent is *vomits*)

Me too. That's why I don't even go to church on Mother's Day anymore.

 

[idea]

So, my husband really is overtly busy, has no time, and I really do get to write his talk... . I'm dreaming about all the wonderful things I would love to hear come out of his mouth - and out of his mouth in front of lots of witnesses....

What do you think? I'm totally pushing the - you are a servant, not a master - theme, and of coarse the "you would be nothing without your wife and don't forget that" message. .

J/K. hopefully it is not too........ whatever that word is.

Intro
Tuesday night I received the phone call that I would be spending part of father’s day giving a talk in church. My wife asked me what the topic was after she saw me on the phone, and I jokingly told her the topic was “how to rule with an iron fist”. That is just a joke of coarse, the real topic is how to preside, and there is a big difference between “ruling with an iron fist” and the “presiding” over a family. In the dictionary entry for preside are a list of synonyms including “lead, advise, and direct” which more closely represents the role of the family patriarch.


The reasons that we do things
There is a saying that women are born as mothers and do not have to be set apart for their calling like men do. Like women, there are some things that men do without having to be asked and called and set apart to do too.. In church we are called to be the ward clerk or a primary teacher or to serve as the weablos leader in boy scouts, but I don’t know of anyone who was ever called into the bishop’s office and asked to accept the calling of fatherhood, or the calling of husbandhood. There are some things that we do because we are “asked” to do them, and other things that we do because we “want” to do them. The role of father and husband is one of the things we do because we want to.

Consider all of the things that we should do on our own, without having to be asked or called by the bishop to do them… .Boyd K. Packer said – “Priesthood holders need no prior authorization to perform ordinances or blessings …. such as consecrating oil, administering to the sick, and giving fathers’ blessings.” Do we offer our services to bless and administer without being asked by those around us? To fulfill the role of patriarch of our own free will and choice rather than out of obligation? Are we the ones who suggest the need for family scripture study, family prayer, family home evening, trips to the temple, or it our wife who suggests these things? We all know that the reasons we do things are as important as what we do. I think we would all agree that it is preferable to do things of our own free will rather than do them because our wives nag us to….

Ask nicely, and be careful what you ask for
We all know asking those around us to do things is a tricky business. When we ask those around us to cook dinner (and I would never tell my wife to do this by the way – just an example) or ask the kids to clean their rooms, or ask for some peace and quiet – often we are met with frowns and arguments over what is requested. There is a difference between asking others to do something for us, and asking others to do something for God though. Yes, we all need help and support from those around us, but the priesthood authority is used to serve God, not our self. With all of our asking, we should ask ourselves, - Am I asking them to do something for me? or to do something for Heavenly Father? If it is a request for something that is self-serving, we need to recognize that it is wrong to expect that our request is backed with the priesthood authority. Perhaps it is only when the request is completely selfless, centered entirely on serving God and not our self, that our priesthood authority will be there to soften the hearts of those whom we petition.
You can clearly see the difference between requests that come with the priesthood, and requests that do not. The difference between requests that are other-centered, and requests that are self-centered… Here is an example of two similar, yet vastly different requests:

Can you go down to the kitchen and get me some ice cream?
Vs.
Can you go down to the kitchen and get yourself some ice-cream?

You see the difference? One request is selfish, one is selfless… If I had a video up here, I might embarrass my family by taping their reaction when I ask when dinner will be ready, or kids to clean up their toys, or to leave the computer alone with all the frowning and pouting that go along with those requests… and then compare them to the reactions I get when I ask them to come into the piano room for family home evening, or ask them if I could read a book to them, or to gather in front of the couch for nightly prayers. The kids are not so easily convinced to clean their rooms so dear old dad won’t stub his toe in the middle of the night again… but there is no hesitation for them to comply when the request is selfless, when it is for something God would have them do. They come leaping and bounding with smiles on their faces when asked to gather for FHE, or to say prayers. I’ve been told that this reaction might change when they get older, but hope that it will not… The point is that if the requests we make of others is 100% selfless, there will be fewer contentions in the home...

I guess when we ask others to do things, we should “ask not what your family can do for you, but what you and your family can do for Heavenly Father.”

 

[idea]

Servant and Master
It is traditional for men to propose to women rather than visa versa, at least that is how it worked with Jamie and I. We hiked up a mountain we both grew up next to, Jamie made the pic-nic lunch, and I asked her to marry me…. Men are at the mercy of women in this scenario, the girl is the one who authorizes and bestows the calling of husbandhood onto the boy when she tells him yes. The same is true with having children. The wife bestows the calling of fatherhood onto her husband by giving birth to their children. We often think that through the priesthood we are the ones who bestow blessings on those around us. May we always remember the blessings that have been bestowed upon us.

When we think of the word “preside” we should not think of ourselves as rulers of our family, but instead of servants of our God and of those around us. In Mormoni 7:22 we are told that all good things come - not from our self - but from Christ.

(22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.( Moroni 7:22))

When Jesus was called the “good master” he replied
18 Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (New Testament | Mark 10:18)

When given praise, Jesus replies
28 … I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me... (New Testament | John 8:28)

We should all follow the example of our Savior in putting leadership and credit where they are due, not in our hands, but in the hands of our Heavenly Father.

Being a real man
Boyd K. Packer said – “The Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthoods are not conferred, nor is one ordained or set apart to an office in either priesthood, unless he is willing to live the standards of worthiness. Those standards include moral purity, the payment of tithes, keeping the Word of Wisdom, and general standards of Christian conduct.”

Have you ever done something that forever after gives you a reputation that you have to live up to from then on? Perhaps you were able to hit a few bulls eyes at the local range, and now have to try and maintain the reputation of being a good shot… or perhaps you stood up for your brother at the bus stop, and forever after were looked to for aid when the neighborhood bullies came around. Once people know you are capable of doing something, once you have made a name for yourself, you are forever after expected to uphold it. Honor requires us to live up to all that we can be. Holding the priesthood is like that. Once you have received the priesthood you are given a reputation of upholding certain high standards that you have to live up to from then on. Everyone knows that if you are capable of receiving the priesthood, you are also capable of living up to the standards that come along with it.
At first it might seem intimidating, even restrictive, to take up the responsibilities of the priesthood. Once you start down the road, once everyone starts expecting certain things from you, there is no honorable way of going back to the simple life that is free of responsibilities. A strange thing happens when you finally give in and submit to picking up the reins though…. Instead of feeling confined and enslaved by the duties you are forever after expected to perform, you find instead freedom. The priesthood reins that we hold are not a burden, but a chance for rest. They are the means of taking us to heights and glories that we would never have witnessed had we not acted upon the councils given to us by our elders.


Freedom
Jesus pleads with us,
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
(New Testament | Matthew 11:28 - 30)

In order to take hold of the priesthood spoken of in the scriptures – which is “the order of the only begotten Son after the holiest order of God” – in order to grasp this sacred new order, we have to first let go of the old order, the order of the world. Our Savior and our Heavenly Father are the ones who carry the burden of responsibility for everything if we let Them. Instead of personally trying to do it all, and be it all, and become it all, and carry the burden of the world - we can simply turn it all over to Them. Put is all into God’s hands. Servants are free of all the responsibilities that the Master has to shoulder. When Jesus and Heavenly Father preside, we don’t have to.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 12)

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
(New Testament | Matthew 16:24 - 25)

May we all lose ourselves in the service of our God and our Redeemer, hold on to “the order of the only begotten Son”, and find the joy and freedom that humbly serving those around us brings.
I say this in the name of Jesus Christ,
Amen.

 

[DadBurnett]

I am reacting to the “Rule with an iron fist” comment …
In a Sacrament Meeting, the Bishop spoke about it being a solemn meeting and that children, all children, must learn to be reverent at all times in church. My eighteen month son was tired, fussy and yes, noisy. The Bishop instructed that the child should be taken out of the sanctuary and made to want to return and be quiet. The Bishop made it quite clear that the rod should not be spared … I obeyed and I deeply regret it, even thirty some decades later.

 

[Orontes]

I am reacting to the “Rule with an iron fist” comment …
In a Sacrament Meeting, the Bishop spoke about it being a solemn meeting and that children, all children, must learn to be reverent at all times in church. My eighteen month son was tired, fussy and yes, noisy. The Bishop instructed that the child should be taken out of the sanctuary and made to want to return and be quiet. The Bishop made it quite clear that the rod should not be spared … I obeyed and I deeply regret it, even thirty some decades later.

Wow! That is disturbing. The foibles of men.

 

[idea]

I am reacting to the “Rule with an iron fist” comment …
In a Sacrament Meeting, the Bishop spoke about it being a solemn meeting and that children, all children, must learn to be reverent at all times in church. My eighteen month son was tired, fussy and yes, noisy. The Bishop instructed that the child should be taken out of the sanctuary and made to want to return and be quiet. The Bishop made it quite clear that the rod should not be spared … I obeyed and I deeply regret it, even thirty some decades later.

wow! ... perhaps you should have reminded the bishop about what the war in heaven was over .... you know, how God wanted everyone to have "free agency" and Satan was the one who was a big control freak

just started a new thread:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/82141-kids-need-dad-fathers-day-thread.html

I might include a few stats from this in it... have to do it in a way that will not make single parents in the audience feel bad though...

 

[monta]

I am reacting to the “Rule with an iron fist” comment …
In a Sacrament Meeting, the Bishop spoke about it being a solemn meeting and that children, all children, must learn to be reverent at all times in church. My eighteen month son was tired, fussy and yes, noisy. The Bishop instructed that the child should be taken out of the sanctuary and made to want to return and be quiet. The Bishop made it quite clear that the rod should not be spared … I obeyed and I deeply regret it, even thirty some decades later.

You should give yourself a break, everybody makes mistakes with their kids, I am sure your son doesn't even remember it, if you keep nursing your guilt it could have a negative impact on your relationship with your son and that will hurt him also.

 

[DadBurnett]

You should give yourself a break, everybody makes mistakes with their kids, I am sure your son doesn't even remember it, if you keep nursing your guilt it could have a negative impact on your relationship with your son and that will hurt him also.

I am not nursing my guilt, there is a difference between guilt and regret. The simple fact was that I and my family lived under this man as Bishop and Stake President for many years and his perception was that love for your children was best expressed by NOT sparing the rod ...
My sons do remember being raised in that environment. And, they have seen me change over time. Knowing that such change is indeed possible - the sins of the father have not been passed on ... they now know that they have choices, that there are other ways to be and act as fathers of their own children. We have an excellent relationship in spite of this Mormon leader's influence, The sad part is that he, from his position of authority, misled so many other parents.

 

[Katzpur]

We have an excellent relationship in spite of this Mormon leader's influence, The sad part is that he, from his position of authority, misled so many other parents.

I guess this just goes to show that our leaders, from the bottom to the top, can make mistakes and that the counsel they give us isn't always inspired. That's why we have to listen to their counsel, weigh its value against what our heart tells us, and then follow our own God-given conscience.

 

[idea]

I guess this just goes to show that our leaders, from the bottom to the top.,.

perhaps at the bottom, but not at the top.

" The Lord has given some marvelous guarantees without any disclaimers. And this is one of them: He will choose the prophet, and He will never let that man lead us astray."

The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
President Wilford Woodruff stated:
“I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God.” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.)
President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident which happened to him:
“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home … Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’ ” (Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78.)
LDS.org - Liahona Article - Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, I think the talk went well, although I was out in the fourier with the kids as usual. 2,4, and 7yos - my 7yo is good, but the 2 and 4... hopefully they will settle down as they grow older, but for now, I will try not to make church a horror for them, so coloring books and snacks on the couches it is!

Doug found a couple really good quotes to add:
The Apostle Paul points out that “the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church” (Eph. 5:23; italics added). That is the model we are to follow in our role of presiding in the home. We do not find the Savior leading the Church with a harsh or unkind hand. We do not find the Savior treating His Church with disrespect or neglect. We do not find the Savior using force or coercion to accomplish His purposes. Nowhere do we find the Savior doing anything but that which edifies, uplifts, comforts, and exalts the Church. Brethren, I say to you with all soberness, He is the model we must follow as we take the spiritual lead in our families.
Particularly is this true in [a husband’s] relationship with [his] wife.
Here again the counsel from the Apostle Paul is most beautiful and to the point. He said simply, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church” (Eph. 5:25).
In latter-day revelation the Lord speaks again of this obligation. He said, “Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else” (D&C 42:22).
What does it mean to love someone with all your heart? It means to love with all your emotional feelings and with all your devotion. Surely when [a husband] love [his wife with all [his] heart, [he] cannot demean her, criticize her, find fault with her, or abuse her by words, sullen behavior, or actions.
What does it mean to “cleave unto her”? It means to stay close to her, to be loyal and faithful to her, to communicate with her, and to express … love for her.
......
President Gordon B. Hinckley has taught: “In this Church the man neither walks ahead of his wife nor behind his wife but at her side. They are coequals.” Since the beginning, God has instructed mankind that marriage should unite husband and wife together in unity. Therefore, there is not a president or a vice president in a family. The couple works together eternally for the good of the family. They are united together in word, in deed, and in action as they lead, guide, and direct their family unit. They are on equal footing. They plan and organize the affairs of the family jointly and unanimously as they move forward.

I'm so thankful my kids have such a great dad.

Happy Father's day everyone!!!!!

 

[Katzpur]

perhaps at the bottom, but not at the top.

Well now, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the General Authorities are inspired to call Stake Presidents who will lead the people of a stake and Stake Presidents are inspired to call Bishops who will lead the people of a ward, there should be no possibility of error all the way down. The difference between you and me is that you see the leaders at the top as infallible but are willing to admit that the leaders at the bottom can make mistakes. I see them all as inspired but fallible men who sometimes state and live by their own opinions.

 

[idea]

Well now, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the General Authorities are inspired to call Stake Presidents who will lead the people of a stake and Stake Presidents are inspired to call Bishops who will lead the people of a ward, there should be no possibility of error all the way down. The difference between you and me is that you see the leaders at the top as infallible but are willing to admit that the leaders at the bottom can make mistakes. I see them all as inspired but fallible men who sometimes state and live by their own opinions.

by that reasoning the bishops have the same authority as the prophet. I guess Judas, as he was called by Jesus himself, was therefore infalible. and doubting Thomas too.

Yes, I see the leader at the top, Jesus Christ, and Heavenly Father, as infallible. and They are very clear where they stand on homosexuality.

you know, this was supposed to be a nice thread on father's day, but I guess you cannot support both fathers and homosexuality, because to say a kid needs their dad goes agianst the lie that a kids will thrive with two moms. so now, we can't even celebrate father's day or have a thread about it without people jumping in with the GLBT ****. How sad.

 

[Katzpur]

by that reasoning the bishops have the same authority as the prophet.

Uh, no. But if the prophet never makes a mistake, why are there Stake Presidents and Bishops who end up getting excommunicated for adultery?

Yes, I see the leader at the top, Jesus Christ, and Heavenly Father, as infallible.

Get real. I wasn't referring to them and you know I wasn't.

and They are very clear where they stand on homosexuality.

Somehow you've come to the understanding that I think gay sex is just fine. Well, since I've said on many, many occasions that I don't think it is, it's pointless for me to say it again.

you know, this was supposed to be a nice thread on father's day, but I guess you cannot support both fathers and homosexuality, because to say a kid needs their dad goes agianst the lie that a kids will thrive with two moms. so now, we can't even celebrate father's day or have a thread about it without people jumping in with the GLBT ****. How sad.

Jeesh! I've never seen anybody who can twist my words like you can. Well, actually, I have. Fish Hunter/Christian Pilgrim did a pretty good job of it. Why are you telling me that I can't support both fathers and homosexuality? I've never said anything that would warrant such a ridiculous statement.

Here's what I support: (1) strong, loving families, (2) morality, (3) personal integrity, (4) free agency, and (4) civil rights.

Somehow, you just don't seem to be able to understand how that works.

 

[zomg]

:banghead3:

 

[Katzpur]

:banghead3:

Want to elaborate?

 

[zomg]

I was going to post this the other day and found some reason not to. I feel like sharing it now. Great examples of fathers in The Book of Mormon-

Lehi- many reasons why. One scripture in particular sticks out:

And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great joy; wherefore, I began to be desirous that my family should partake of it also; for I knew that it was desirable above all other fruit.
13 And as I cast my eyes round about, that perhaps I might discover my family also, I beheld a river of water; and it ran along, and it was near the tree of which I was partaking the fruit.

14 And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and Nephi; and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go.

15 And it came to pass that I beckoned unto them; and I also did say unto them with a loud voice that they should come unto me, and partake of the fruit, which was desirable above all other fruit. - 1 Nephi 8

This is great because Lehi recognizes the goodness of the fruit and the first thing he can think of is sharing it with his family. When his family isn't sure where to go...he calls to them to follow.

Alma the Younger - He is probably my favorite Book of Mormon prophet. Why? Because he is a great father. Especially in his treatment towards his wayward son, Corianton (Alma 39-42).

Lamoni's father - Bad example here. Just read Alma 20. He is controlling to the point Lamoni is afraid of him. When Lamoni won't follow his orders, he tries to kill Lamoni. Yikes! However, once hearing the Gospel of Christ he becomes a great man

Just a few examples. There are others - Moroni, Mosiah, Benjamin, etc.

 

[zomg]

Want to elaborate?

No need to :ignore:

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I am reacting to the “Rule with an iron fist” comment …
In a Sacrament Meeting, the Bishop spoke about it being a solemn meeting and that children, all children, must learn to be reverent at all times in church. My eighteen month son was tired, fussy and yes, noisy. The Bishop instructed that the child should be taken out of the sanctuary and made to want to return and be quiet. The Bishop made it quite clear that the rod should not be spared … I obeyed and I deeply regret it, even thirty some decades later.

You shouldnt regret it, 30years ago many parents spanked their kids. To this day, I think some parts of America still allow it (am I wrong, americans will have to tell me?)...you obviously felt it was the right thing to do otherwise you wouldnt have done it.....all parents make mistakes, all people make mistakes!