How would you describe this feeling?

[frg001]

Ok. I am an atheist. There's no getting around the fact that I don't think a greater power created the universe, let alone the earth and it's inhabitants. And I don't believe in a soul, or rebirth.

Here's where it gets weird for me though. And don't laugh.

I've been feeling a resonance with the world around me. Sometimes it gets to the stage where I become at one with everything. This is without drugs, or alcohol - (don't get me wrong I love my beer from time to time, and enjoy the occaisional joint).
I recently had what I can only describe as an epiphany... I understood... everyone, every point of view, and every life choice. This includes mad people, and evil people, people whose actions I can only describe as despicable, as though I suddenly was inside everyones head, the worlds head, it's mountains, rivers and oceans. I didn't feel anything bad towards anyone or anything, only understanding.

I felt for want of a better word, spiritual. It's the wrong word, because I do not in any way believe in the supernatural, or life after death.

But as time goes by I have a craving to spend time alone, perhaps as remote as Antarctica, or anywhere where I can just sit and think without the slightest fear of disturbance. This isn't going to happen as I have my family, and I wouldn't want to be away from them for any length of time.

I would love to shed some light on these feelings? Has anyone else felt this?

Thanks for any responses...

 

[Scuba Pete]

I feel that when I Scuba. The only noises are my bubbles and the various reef critters clicking at me.

 

[Buttons*]

Gnosis

 

[silvermoon383]

I've felt that before, numerous times. We refer to it as the "light of Christ". Believe it or not, someone is trying to reach you.

 

[Buttons*]

some say it would be: Tao

 

[Buttons*]

....temporary enlightenment?

 

[mingmty]

I have felt that several times, for me is to stop swimming and let life drive my senses and thoughts, experiencing the whole as one and the absence of coincidences. :jiggy:

I love being alone... don't get me wrong, I have my family, my girlfriend and a work, but sometimes the only way to find peace and enlightening is by walking to the forest in the search of my own self. For me camping is a fundamental part of my beliefs

 

[Buttons*]

.... although, i'm baised... so i'm still gonna go with Gnosis

 

[jewscout]

I would love to shed some light on these feelings? Has anyone else felt this?

i have felt this when davening (praying)

i felt a part of something more, bigger than myself

 

[Buttons*]

i assume this is a universal feeling then?
So does this mean that we've all come up with some way to explain this feeling?
Is this why we have so many religions?

(sorry head's buzzing)

 

[frg001]

I have felt that several times, for me is to stop swimming and let life drive my senses and thoughts, experiencing the whole as one and the absence of coincidences. :jiggy:

I love being alone... don't get me wrong, I have my family, my girlfriend and a work, but sometimes the only way to find peace and enlightening is by walking to the forest in the search of my own self. For me camping is a fundamental part of my beliefs

Camping yes, that's great. Pity my other half enjoys the comfort of a hotel, and hates 'creepy-crawlies'
One of my all time greatest nights was spent with 2 friends in a deserted Welsh campsite, with a fire roaring away until 5 in the morning, getting high and just being. Thing is the recent epiphany happened stone cold sober...

 

[lilithu]

A few years ago now, I got into an argument online with a vocal atheist. He came into the group giving the usual spiel about how anyone who believes in God is stupid etc, etc. After that argument quieted down a little we got into another disagreement about the upcoming war. It hadn't started yet but we could all see that's where it was headed. Anway, at one point he invited me to "pray" with him. Since we had just had the theist/atheist argument and we in the middle of another disagreement, I naturally thought that he was mocking me, and said so. But he wasn't mocking me. He had no concept of a God or creator. But he prayed anyway. And he didn't pray for divine intervention which he didn't believe in (and neither do I). He prayed because he felt a connection with the rest of "creation", and when he sent his hopeful thoughts out to join with that of others, he felt it made a difference. No logical explanation for why it would make a difference. Nevertheless he felt so anyway.

After that, I basically gave up assuming that I knew about a person's beliefs from the labels they choose for themselves.


What you describe is a direct experience of what the Buddhists call "interdependency." We are all interconnected with each other, and if we can fully understand that, anger will disappear and we would have compassion for all beings.

I have felt it. Many others have felt it. And depending upon whether we are theists or atheists, we put different labels/filters to it but I believe it is the same thing. I believe that this experience is at the core of what it means to be religious. Not religious in terms of doctrines and rituals (which were created in response to this experience), but religious in terms of believing in something greater than oneself.

If you can get past the "God-talk" in this thread, you might find it interesting:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28802

One last thing: spiritual does not necessarily mean "supernatural." For me, a spritual life is a life lived in search of meaning and value. It constantly calls us to hold our actions up to our ideals and see whether they measure up, and to readjust our actions if they don't. I know plenty of overtly religious people (doctrine and rituals) that I do not consider spiritual (tho I really shouldn't be judging). And I know plenty of atheists who I consider to be deeply spiritual. Several of them go to my church.

 

[frg001]

A few years ago now, I got into an argument online with a vocal atheist. He came into the group giving the usual spiel about how anyone who believes in God is stupid etc, etc. After that argument quieted down a little we got into another disagreement about the upcoming war. It hadn't started yet but we could all see that's where it was headed. Anway, at one point he invited me to "pray" with him. Since we had just had the theist/atheist argument and we in the middle of another disagreement, I naturally thought that he was mocking me, and said so. But he wasn't mocking me. He had no concept of a God or creator. But he prayed anyway. And he didn't pray for divine intervention which he didn't believe in (and neither do I). He prayed because he felt a connection with the rest of "creation", and when he sent his hopeful thoughts out to join with that of others, he felt it made a difference. No logical explanation for why it would make a difference. Nevertheless he felt so anyway.

After that, I basically gave up assuming that I knew about a person's beliefs from the labels they choose for themselves.


What you describe is a direct experience of what the Buddhists call "interdependency." We are all interconnected with each other, and if we can fully understand that, anger will disappear and we would have compassion for all beings.

I have felt it. Many others have felt it. And depending upon whether we are theists or atheists, we put different labels/filters to it but I believe it is the same thing. I believe that this experience is at the core of what it means to be religious. Not religious in terms of doctrines and rituals (which were created in response to this experience), but religious in terms of believing in something greater than oneself.

If you can get past the "God-talk" in this thread, you might find it interesting:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28802

One last thing: spiritual does not necessarily mean "supernatural." For me, a spritual life is a life lived in search of meaning and value. It constantly calls us to hold our actions up to our ideals and see whether they measure up, and to readjust our actions if they don't. I know plenty of overtly religious people (doctrine and rituals) that I do not consider spiritual (tho I really shouldn't be judging). And I know plenty of atheists who I consider to be deeply spiritual. Several of them go to my church.

Nice post... Although I still regard the term 'spiritual' as not quite right. Possibly because it stems from the word spirit

 

[d.]

yes. and i don't believe in souls, rebirths or any other funny business either.

maybe you should check out scientific pantheism. i share some of their ideas :

What Pantheism believes

At the heart of pantheism is reverence of the universe as the ultimate focus of reverence, and for the natural earth as sacred.

Scientific or Natural Pantheism - Pan for short - has a naturalistic approach which simply accepts and reveres the universe and nature just as they are, and promotes an ethic of respect for human and animal rights and for lifestyles that sustain rather than destroy the environment.

When scientific pantheists say WE REVERE THE UNIVERSE we are not talking about a supernatural being. We are talking about the way our senses and our emotions force us to respond to the overwhelming mystery and power that surrounds us.
We are part of the universe. Our earth was created from the universe and will one day be reabsorbed into the universe.

We are made of the same matter and energy as the universe. We are not in exile here: we are at home. It is only here that we will ever get the chance to see paradise face to face. If we believe our real home is not here but in a land that lies beyond death - if we believe that the numinous is found only in old books, or old buildings, or inside our head, or outside this reality - then we will see this real, vibrant, luminous world as if through a glass darkly.

The universe creates us, preserves us, destroys us. It is deep and old beyond our ability to reach with our senses. It is beautiful beyond our ability to describe in words. It is complex beyond our ability to fully grasp in science. We must relate to the universe with humility, awe, reverence, celebration and the search for deeper understanding - in many of the ways that believers relate to their God, minus the grovelling worship or the expectation that there is some being out there who can answer our prayers.

This overwhelming presence is everywhere inside you and outside you and you can never be separated from it.

Whatever else is taken from you, this can never be taken from you.
Wherever you are, it's there with you.
Wherever you go, it goes with you.
Whatever happens to you, it remains with you.
​

When pantheists say WE REVERE AND CARE FOR NATURE, we mean it with just as much commitment and reverence as believers speaking about their church or mosque, or the relics of their saints. But again we are not talking about supernatural beings.

We are saying this:

We are part of nature. Nature made us and at our death we will be reabsorbed into nature. We are at home in nature and in our bodies. This is where we belong. This is the only place where we can find and make our paradise, not in some imaginary world on the other side of the grave. If nature is the only paradise, then separation from nature is the only hell. When we destroy nature, we create hell on earth for other species and for ourselves.

Nature is our mother, our home, our security, our peace, our past and our future. We should treat natural things and habitats as believers treat their temples and shrines, as sacred - to be revered and preserved in all their intricate and fragile beauty.

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm

The belief statement of the World Pantheist Movement

1. We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder.

2. All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art.

3. We are an integral part of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all its magnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony with Nature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life, human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion and respect.

4. All humans are equal centers of awareness of the Universe and nature, and all deserve a life of equal dignity and mutual respect. To this end we support and work towards freedom, democracy, justice, and non-discrimination, and a world community based on peace, sustainable ways of life, full respect for human rights and an end to poverty.

5. There is a single kind of substance, energy/matter, which is vibrant and infinitely creative in all its forms. Body and mind are indivisibly united.

6. We see death as the return to nature of our elements, and the end of our existence as individuals. The forms of "afterlife" available to humans are natural ones, in the natural world. Our actions, our ideas and memories of us live on, according to what we do in our lives. Our genes live on in our families, and our elements are endlessly recycled in nature.

7. We honor reality, and keep our minds open to the evidence of the senses and of science's unending quest for deeper understanding. These are our best means of coming to know the Universe, and on them we base our aesthetic and religious feelings about reality.

8. Every individual has direct access through perception, emotion and meditation to ultimate reality, which is the Universe and Nature. There is no need for mediation by priests, gurus or revealed scriptures.

9. We uphold the separation of religion and state, and the universal human right of freedom of religion. We recognize the freedom of all pantheists to express and celebrate their beliefs, as individuals or in groups, in any non-harmful ritual, symbol or vocabulary that is meaningful to them.

http://www.pantheism.net/manifest.htm

or might i even suggest a quick glance at taoism...couldn't hurt, right?
​

 

[mingmty]

Camping yes, that's great. Pity my other half enjoys the comfort of a hotel, and hates 'creepy-crawlies'
One of my all time greatest nights was spent with 2 friends in a deserted Welsh campsite, with a fire roaring away until 5 in the morning, getting high and just being. Thing is the recent epiphany happened stone cold sober...

I have never been high maybe because I love sports and practice many of them, or maybe because I'm a nerd... :banghead3 But I have felt that like you anyway. The truth is you can give whatever explanation you like to the phenomena, at the end is your phenomena, and if you think it could be worth the try you may find interesting searching what else is "there"

 

[lilithu]

Nice post... Although I still regard the term 'spiritual' as not quite right. Possibly because it stems from the word spirit

Touché. If you can come up with a better word, let me know. Seriously.

 

[d.]

Nice post... Although I still regard the term 'spiritual' as not quite right. Possibly because it stems from the word spirit

i know what you mean. i do use the word 'spiritual', but i don't really find it fitting either. i don't claim to know anything about the nature of the 'supernatural' or whatever you want to call it. i just acknowledge my direct, unavoidable experience, in the privacy of my own home.

i can't get around the fact that i find the claim of definite knowledge about the nature of the 'unknowable' ignorant at best. and that is one of the reasons why i'm into taoism. in my interpretation at least , it holds up very well to my very skeptic scrutiny.

 

[d.]

i assume this is a universal feeling then?
So does this mean that we've all come up with some way to explain this feeling?
Is this why we have so many religions?

i'd say so.

 

[lilithu]

yes. and i don't believe in souls, rebirths or any other funny business either.

Buddhist rebirth actually isn't "funny business," tho I admit it gets a little funny in Tibetan Buddhism what with the Lamas and the belief that they can recognize objects from past lives.

But rebirth actually makes sense if we 1) remember that there is no permanent, unchanging soul, and 2) take the concept of interdependancy - that feeling that you had that you could see things from the perspective of every being - and extend it not only spatially in the here and now but also temporally.

I can't really explain it better than that. Bascially, I had another epiphany recently too. I had already had the experience of being able to see the connections between all beings several times. But recently, while I was reflecting on a Buddhist sutta on karma, I suddenly could see that it extended through time as well. That the barrier of time was a false barrier, just as the barriers between myself and others is a false barrier. And I could see how I was interconnected to beings who have lived before me, back, back, through time. It doesn't mean that I believe that I was those beings reborn into me. Remember, there is no self, no permanent soul, only the collection of aggregates and what exists as a result of the conditions. In an instant, I understood the concept of rebirth, and I understood that it is not supernatural.

 

[d.]

Buddhist rebirth actually isn't "funny business," tho I admit it gets a little funny in Tibetan Buddhism what with the Lamas and the belief that they can recognize objects from past lives.

But rebirth actually makes sense if we 1) remember that there is no permanent, unchanging soul, and 2) take the concept of interdependancy - that feeling that you had that you could see things from the perspective of every being - and extend it not only spatially in the here and now but also temporally.

I can't really explain it better than that. Bascially, I had another epiphany recently too. I had already had the experience of being able to see the connections between all beings several times. But recently, while I was reflecting on a Buddhist sutta on karma, I suddenly could see that it extended through time as well. That the barrier of time was a false barrier, just as the barriers between myself and others is a false barrier. And I could see how I was interconnected to beings who have lived before me, back, back, through time. It doesn't mean that I believe that I was those beings reborn into me. Remember, there is no self, no permanent soul, only the collection of aggregates and what exists as a result of the conditions. In an instant, I understood the concept of rebirth, and I understood that it is not supernatural.

interesting. i can live with that idea. i admit i didn't know that...then again the 'funny business' bit was mostly a joke.