How would you reform k-12 education?

[Sunstone]

It is generally agreed that k-12 education is in trouble in the US (and perhaps elsewhere). What would you do to improve k-12 education?

 

[jonny]

Get rid of the 12th grade and spend the money on the lower grades (raise teacher's salaries?!?). Senior year in high school is a waste of time.

Start kids with learning a foreign language in elementary school.

Allow students who don't want to go to college to go through a program that emphasizes job skills along with other skills instead of attending high school.

Create more public schools that allow students to emphasize in certain subject areas. For example, in the Vancouver School District we have a School of the Arts. School districts should have schools that emphasize in teaching math, science, technology, etc to customize programs to the interest of the students.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure I can think of some other stuff.

 

[Saw11_2000]

I agree with what Jonny said.

I just ripped this out of my journal, so it's more of a personal rant than a post.---

I just want to say I'm VERY afraid of what the future brings for the U.S. We have one of the poorest educational systems in the world for such an advanced country. My friends are dropping out of tough classes and going in to things like Integrated Math II from Algebra I, when I'm taking Algebra II.

How can we fix this?

People learn different ways, so why not teach classes different ways?

Some people learn be seeing, such as analyzing film, looking at models (not Heidi Klum, but the other type), etc.

Some people learn by hearing, possibly listening to the taecher talk and explain rather than see.

Some people learn through activities, why don't we build a hands-on class. Complete with maybe some maps and little army men to show advancing troops, or maybe an exercise to build the great pyramids with marshmellows.

SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WAHT WE HAVE NOW!

My friend told me, that she just wasn't as "smart" as me.

Although I believe some people can be naturally more "smart" than others, I don't believe that it is that large of a difference. I believe it is just the fact that we're teaching people in methods they're not comfortable with. My friend could be just as smart as me, maybe more, maybe less, if she was taught in an environment comfortable to her.

And, it wouldn't hurt to cut classes from 39 people like in my Theatre I class to like 15.

 

[retrorich]

I would place greater emphasis on English grammar and writing skills. Summer vacations should be shortened to two weeks. Teachers should work 12 months a year, as do people in other professions. Why should they be paid for 12 months, when they only work nine months?

 

[jamaesi]

For such an important job teachers have, they get paid such a little amount. That always bothers me.

Smaller class sizes and more free time for the students to learn on their own and more activity learning would be helpful. Sitting in a stuffy classroom isn´t a learning environment- it´s more like a prision after a few hours.

 

[jonny]

I would place greater emphasis on English grammar and writing skills. Summer vacations should be shortened to two weeks. Teachers should work 12 months a year, as do people in other professions. Why should they be paid for 12 months, when they only work nine months?

My sister is a teacher and she regularly works 12 hour days. I think she puts in her fair share of work during the school year. I used to think the same thing until I saw how hard a teacher actually works when school is in session.

Also, she has to take classes during the summer to keep her certification. I'd rather have the teachers be educated than burnt out.

 

[michel]

For such an important job teachers have, they get paid such a little amount. That always bothers me.

Smaller class sizes and more free time for the students to learn on their own and more activity learning would be helpful. Sitting in a stuffy classroom isn´t a learning environment- it´s more like a prision after a few hours.

Well, by the sounds of it, you have much the same problem as we do in England - nobody wants to be a teacher - because of the hours and pay.

As far as the teaching is concerned, The emphasis is getting back to the 3 r's - the number of kids leaving school illeterate or without a basic understanding of maths is frightening.

The other innovation is the recognition that not everyone can be a genius; for those who are not accademically blessed, there will be an option for training in basic skills, such as plumbing, bricklaying and other necessary trades for which we are fast running short of people prepared to do the work........

 

[NoName]

These are all good ideas, but are any of you really willing to go along with the tax raises it takes to increase teacher salary and decrease class sizes (by having more teachers) and build more schools (and therefore hire more teachers)? People can talk all they want, but most people just don't care enough when it comes down to paying for it.

Get rid of the 12th grade and spend the money on the lower grades (raise teacher's salaries?!?). Senior year in high school is a waste of time.

I learned a lot my senior year of high school. I took one of the best spanish classes I have ever had. I took a couple classes that I got college credit for, too, so I could ease into college a little more slowly.

Start kids with learning a foreign language in elementary school.

That's a good idea. Bilingualism is a good thing.

Allow students who don't want to go to college to go through a program that emphasizes job skills along with other skills instead of attending high school.

another good idea.

Create more public schools that allow students to emphasize in certain subject areas. For example, in the Vancouver School District we have a School of the Arts. School districts should have schools that emphasize in teaching math, science, technology, etc to customize programs to the interest of the students.

Horrible idea. IT would cost way too much to build/staff/supply all those different schools. Some people don't know what they want yet, either.


What I would do is take out all the extra stuff that schools have to pay for. Instead of schools having to provide welfare services to their students, they should just advertise other places where they can get those services. People say you should pay for welfare services in schools like free and reduced lunch because if you're not eating you're certainly not learning. But if schools have to pay for stuff like that on the small budgets they have, nobody is learning, because too little money actually goes to the classrooms.

 

[jonny]

I learned a lot my senior year of high school. I took one of the best spanish classes I have ever had. I took a couple classes that I got college credit for, too, so I could ease into college a little more slowly.

Horrible idea. IT would cost way too much to build/staff/supply all those different schools. Some people don't know what they want yet, either.

The fact that you were taking classes for college credit shows that the year could have been just as well spent attending college.

It's working in the school district where I grew up. I'm not talking about building 50 different schools for every subject that you could possibly think of. The school district I grew up in had a lot of money and it was spent doing things that benefited the students. If schools provide what people want they won't have much of a problem getting the money they need. Just become something is a new idea it doesn't make it a horrible idea. Look into things before you simply dismiss them.

I believe that the more you can customize a student's education to their interests, the more likely they are to succeed. If this is a horrible idea, so be it.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How Business Sees Arts and Academics in Vancouver [/font]



Hewlett-Packard, the largest employer in Clark County, has a Community Action Plan with five platforms, two of which are K-12 Education and Arts and Culture. "We have a real interest in the quality of life," said Hewlett-Packard education representative Doug Sessions. "It directly relates to our ability to attract the best and brightest engineers in the country." A high school principal and long-time member of the community, Sessions was hired away to connect the culture of work and the culture of education and "translate messages between them."

Visiting Vancouver's Arts and Academics school, he noted, "The interdisciplinary approach to instruction, the project-oriented focus, the sense that students are working in teams, collaborating, and, too, the high expectations in terms of the core subject areas, that's something that comes through. You know, you don't have to be here very long to see that there's an ethic of high performance. It's kind of an unusual place for Hewlett-Packard to look for math and science achievement, but the whole package is here. That's what we want. That's the way our employees work."

http://www.pcah.gov/gaa/profiles/vancouver.html
http://portalsso.vansd.org/pls/port...NEWS_RELEASES_INFO_PAGE/VSAABLUERIBBONWEB.HTM

 

[NoName]

High schools are still a place to give people broad base of learning. Colleges are where you can narrow your interests and classes to fit a specific idea or school of thought.

Good point about the 12th grade, though. Except I don't think at that time I was "old" enough to leave my family and handle a "real" course load in college.

 

[Ryan2065]

I for one think that each school district should get an equal amount of money across the state... They are mostly funded by property taxes, so instead of using all the property taxes from one little area, it should be spread across the whole state evenly.

Also I believe that most of our problems will go away if we somehow are able to make people pay taxes. Currently, if everyone paid their taxes, taxes would be lowered between 30 and 40% But the IRS is not equipped to deal with so many people not paying taxes and by law they are only allowed to do random audits, not target people who they know are cheating their taxes so they can do little to stop it. If everyone paid their taxes it would be cheaper for all and we would have more money for things like education and war (One is shrubs favorite, the other he stays away from... can you guess which is which? =P)

 

[NoName]

I for one think that each school district should get an equal amount of money across the state... They are mostly funded by property taxes, so instead of using all the property taxes from one little area, it should be spread across the whole state evenly.

wonderful Idea! :clap

Also I believe that most of our problems will go away if we somehow are able to make people pay taxes. Currently, if everyone paid their taxes, taxes would be lowered between 30 and 40% But the IRS is not equipped to deal with so many people not paying taxes and by law they are only allowed to do random audits, not target people who they know are cheating their taxes so they can do little to stop it. If everyone paid their taxes it would be cheaper for all and we would have more money for things like education and war (One is shrubs favorite, the other he stays away from... can you guess which is which? =P)

You could have a nation wide sales tax, instead of an income tax.

 

[Ryan2065]

You could have a nation wide sales tax, instead of an income tax.

I am very for that idea just because it is then 100 times harder to cheat taxes... =)

 

[jonny]

I am very for that idea just because it is then 100 times harder to cheat taxes... =)

And 100% harder on those with low incomes. I would only support a national sales tax if some way was created for exemptions. Also, I am against any sales tax - local, state, or national - that includes unprepared food in the tax. People shouldn't have to pay taxes to eat.

 

[Ryan2065]

And 100% harder on those with low incomes. I would only support a national sales tax if some way was created for exemptions. Also, I am against any sales tax - local, state, or national - that includes unprepared food in the tax. People shouldn't have to pay taxes to eat.

If you had sales tax instead of the other taxes people would have more money to spend on the taxes.

 

[jonny]

High schools are still a place to give people broad base of learning. Colleges are where you can narrow your interests and classes to fit a specific idea or school of thought.

We're talking about reform in this thread - not the status quo. Would you disagree that in college you are given a broad base of learning while also narrowing your interests? It's called general edication classes. I don't see why we can't apply the same principles to our public schools.

And, speaking of GE classes, I don't know about your college experience, but I noticed that a very high number of the Freshman students in the colleges I attended had to take classes in subjects such as high school algebra, basic writing, etc. This includes me. It seems to me that this broad base of learning isn't preparing students properly.

 

[jonny]

If you had sales tax instead of the other taxes people would have more money to spend on the taxes.

What? I don't get what you're saying. There are many people who right now pay no taxes because of poverty. How is making them pay taxes going to give them more money?

 

[Ryan2065]

And, speaking of GE classes, I don't know about your college experience, but I noticed that a very high number of the Freshman students in the colleges I attended had to take classes in subjects such as high school algebra, basic writing, etc. This includes me. It seems to me that this broad base of learning isn't preparing students properly.

So do away with it instead of reforming it? Why is it the last year of high school is such a waste? Is it due to the classes or due to the attitude of the students taking those classes? In my highschool I took some Calculus courses in high school as well as some AP courses... To say that "Oh you will get college credit at your FREE public school so why not go to college and PAY to take those same classes." is quite the bad statement. =)

 

[Darkdale]

What? I don't get what you're saying. There are many people who right now pay no taxes because of poverty. How is making them pay taxes going to give them more money?

No proposed fair tax or sales tax includes a tax on food or essentials. So I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[NoName]

And 100% harder on those with low incomes. I would only support a national sales tax if some way was created for exemptions. Also, I am against any sales tax - local, state, or national - that includes unprepared food in the tax. People shouldn't have to pay taxes to eat.

Definitely not. Paying taxes to eat is dumb. But the way it is now, people are paying taxes before they eat.

And, speaking of GE classes, I don't know about your college experience, but I noticed that a very high number of the Freshman students in the colleges I attended had to take classes in subjects such as high school algebra, basic writing, etc. This includes me. It seems to me that this broad base of learning isn't preparing students properly.

Good point.