Huh?

[JustGeorge]

I'm left wondering what the purpose of our local police department is.

I will be the first to tell you that I'm here(meaning, alive) because a police officer intervened. I have always been aware I got lucky that that gentleman was on the shift that night, because not all officers are so diligent. However, I'm feeling a little confused and disturbed at moment after a scenario tonight.

As some know, we've dealt with some local thugs using the vacant house next door as their 'headquarters' to rob the neighborhood. It seems like a never ended game of see the turds, call the cops, cops come, nothing happens.

Apparently, they can't go in because the squatters lock the doors after themselves(even though you can see people in there, and lights flashing). However, I'm feeling particularly discouraged after tonight; the cops could see a person peeking out the window. The commanding officer jiggled the doorknob and said "sorry, locked. Can't go in." Huh, what? What do you mean you can't go in? "Need a search warrant." Even the other officers looked confused as to why they weren't going in, but didn't have the 'rank' to do anything.

We've dealt with this commanding officer before; he's rude, and tends to insult concerned citizens in the area. (My husband was watching last time this happened from the porch, and the guy guy screamed "did I give you ****ing permission to come outside?" My husband pointed out he was on his own property, and not bothering anything.) My husband asked tonight "so what do we do now?" the guy simply told him "buy a gun and protect your family."

WTF?

Now, a gun is not safe in this house. I have two kids with special needs and feisty and defiant ways, and I am fairly certain a gun in this particular household would go badly(sorry, gun enthusiasts, I'm not here to debate my *personal* situation regarding gun ownership). Not to mention, ideally you can shoot in self defense, but property lines are so close here(this house is ten feet away from ours), I can see that being an issue should someone be killed.

Besides, who wants that on their back?

I feel disappointed that the police are encouraging citizens to 'do it yourself'.

Do you feel this is appropriate? If the law states this is fine, should it remain that way? What purpose do the police serve in your area? What purpose do you feel they should serve? If you're not a US citizen, how would the reporting of an incident similar to ours go in your neck of the woods?

 

[Brickjectivity]

If the law states this is fine, should it remain that way?

On the one hand we do not want police to have carte blanche to enter any property at any time. These hoodlums ought to be put into prison, but if the police search without a warrant and charge them these hoodlums may get released by a judge. It is a very serious matter, because it protects you from police -- from times when police go into places to discover what crimes may have been committed. It usually protects you from wiretapping, too. Now suppose a police officer doesn't like you, and suppose there is no law to restrain them. They enter your home to find something to accuse you of! Suppose they find your child playing with some mustard and accuse you of negligence and call the government to take away your children. You wouldn't think a police officer would do this, but its the kind of thing police do sometimes if not restrained from doing so.

On the other hand it sounds like they police ought to be watching that house, doesn't it? They could put a camera on it.

 

[RestlessSoul]

To my ears, “buy a gun and protect your family” sounds like code for “you’re on your own, pal”. Which I would consider a very worrying message to hear from a cop. In your shoes, I’d consider escalating my concerns to the town council, mayor’s office or whatever. Don’t forget your taxes pay these cop’s wages (don’t ever tell them that to their faces though).

 

[JustGeorge]

On the one hand we do not want police to have carte blanche to enter any property at any time. These hoodlums ought to be put into prison, but if the police search without a warrant and charge them these hoodlums may get released by a judge. It is a very serious matter, because it protects you from police -- from times when police go into places to discover what crimes may have been committed. It usually protects you from wiretapping, too. Now suppose a police officer doesn't like you, and suppose there is no law to restrain them. They enter your home to find something to accuse you of! Suppose they find your child playing with some mustard and accuse you of negligence and call the government to take away your children. You wouldn't think a police officer would do this, but its the kind of thing police do sometimes if not restrained from doing so.

On the other hand it sounds like they police ought to be watching that house, doesn't it? They could put a camera on it.

What's wrong with playing with mustard? Makes a good substitute for finger paint...


They suggested we put up cameras and they could do more, but, that costs a bit and may not be doable at this moment.

To my ears, “buy a gun and protect your family” sounds like code for “you’re on your own, pal”. Which I would consider a very worrying message to hear from a cop. In your shoes, I’d consider escalating my concerns to the town council, mayor’s office or whatever. Don’t forget your taxes pay these cop’s wages (don’t ever tell them that to their faces though).

That's what I heard, too. We've tried contacting the mayor in the past, but didn't get a response. Guess its time to get annoying.

 

[rocala]

@JustGeorge I am so very sorry to read of your problems. I have some understanding of what you are going through. Two years ago my street was invaded by junkies. They expected to be allowed to take over people's doorways and in some cases used the doorways as toilets.

The police were not really interested. What is a major threat to your lifestyle is a minor misdemeanor to them.

One day there was quite a large and noisy crowd gathering. All of a sudden I heard one shouting "we have to go" and they left. A little later I saw a gang of young men walking around the street. It appears the junkies had crapped on the wrong doorstep.

The police can take zero credit for their departure. One officer did tell me that they were instrumental in getting the "dealer" evicted, but admitted he had just taken the problem to another street.

 

[JustGeorge]

@JustGeorge I am so very sorry to read of your problems. I have some understanding of what you are going through. Two years ago my street was invaded by junkies. They expected to be allowed to take over people's doorways and in some cases used the doorways as toilets.

The police were not really interested. What is a major threat to your lifestyle is a minor misdemeanor to them.

One day there was quite a large and noisy crowd gathering. All of a sudden I heard one shouting "we have to go" and they left. A little later I saw a gang of young men walking around the street. It appears the junkies had crapped on the wrong doorstep.

The police can take zero credit for their departure. One officer did tell me that they were instrumental in getting the "dealer" evicted, but admitted he had just taken the problem to another street.

That is crazy! They were just dumping on people's doorsteps?

These guys have broken into most of the houses on the block now(a few houses more than once).

 

[exchemist]

What's wrong with playing with mustard? Makes a good substitute for finger paint...

View attachment 66970
They suggested we put up cameras and they could do more, but, that costs a bit and may not be doable at this moment.



That's what I heard, too. We've tried contacting the mayor in the past, but didn't get a response. Guess its time to get annoying.

In the UK too, a search warrant is needed to enter private property. And that's probably right, when you think about it.

Can you not engage your neighbours, to avoid you being perhaps dismissed as a "purple file job", i.e. troublemaker/crank? They must be just as worried about this as you are.

And who owns it? If you don't know, can you find out by doing a land registry search? Can you and the neighbours contact them to see if they can get these squatters ejected?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you're not a US citizen, how would the reporting of an incident similar to ours go in your neck of the woods?

Reporting it to the police? About the same, I think.

Something that would work here and might work for you: complain to your city or town, not the police.

I think it's pretty standard that most towns' by-laws will require the owners of vacant buildings to secure them against entry. By-Law Enforcement can get pretty aggressive around here about fining deadbeat property owners.

If you turn your problem into a financial problem for the property owner, you will hopefully be able to get them calling police for a trespassing call, so the police wouldn't need a warrant to go in.

... and if the squatters keep coming back, hopefully continual fines to the property owner will give them enough motivation to just demolish the building.

 

[Stevicus]

The commanding officer jiggled the doorknob and said "sorry, locked. Can't go in." Huh, what? What do you mean you can't go in? "Need a search warrant."

This makes me think that if all cops were this diligent about following the Constitution, the vast majority of incidents of police misconduct would go away rather quickly. This merely confirms that cops will go after those they see as "easy meat," mostly innocent people who might be guilty of piddly violations (such as George Floyd).

But when it comes to actually enforcing real laws against real criminals, they mostly chicken out (such as we see here).

I feel disappointed that the police are encouraging citizens to 'do it yourself'.

Do you feel this is appropriate? If the law states this is fine, should it remain that way? What purpose do the police serve in your area? What purpose do you feel they should serve? If you're not a US citizen, how would the reporting of an incident similar to ours go in your neck of the woods?

Most of the times I've had to deal with the police were in instances of burglaries or theft when a police report number was needed in order to file a claim with insurance. So, for the most part, the only real purpose of the police is bureaucratic/administrative. Paperwork. No hope of recovering any stolen items.

Other than that, they're hardly more than bureaucrats on wheels, looking for excuses to impose fines for the sake of revenue enhancement. The only other thing they seem to place a great deal of emphasis on is the War on Drugs, which is designed to gain higher profits for the drug cartels.

It seems clear that their only real mission is to protect the assets of the wealthy and organized crime. Whenever it comes to doing anything meaningful for the non-wealthy, it's hit-and-miss at best. Once in a while they might do something decent, but that's the exception, not the rule.

 

[Truth in love]

I'm left wondering what the purpose of our local police department is.

I will be the first to tell you that I'm here(meaning, alive) because a police officer intervened. I have always been aware I got lucky that that gentleman was on the shift that night, because not all officers are so diligent. However, I'm feeling a little confused and disturbed at moment after a scenario tonight.

As some know, we've dealt with some local thugs using the vacant house next door as their 'headquarters' to rob the neighborhood. It seems like a never ended game of see the turds, call the cops, cops come, nothing happens.

Apparently, they can't go in because the squatters lock the doors after themselves(even though you can see people in there, and lights flashing). However, I'm feeling particularly discouraged after tonight; the cops could see a person peeking out the window. The commanding officer jiggled the doorknob and said "sorry, locked. Can't go in." Huh, what? What do you mean you can't go in? "Need a search warrant." Even the other officers looked confused as to why they weren't going in, but didn't have the 'rank' to do anything.

We've dealt with this commanding officer before; he's rude, and tends to insult concerned citizens in the area. (My husband was watching last time this happened from the porch, and the guy guy screamed "did I give you ****ing permission to come outside?" My husband pointed out he was on his own property, and not bothering anything.) My husband asked tonight "so what do we do now?" the guy simply told him "buy a gun and protect your family."

WTF?

Now, a gun is not safe in this house. I have two kids with special needs and feisty and defiant ways, and I am fairly certain a gun in this particular household would go badly(sorry, gun enthusiasts, I'm not here to debate my *personal* situation regarding gun ownership). Not to mention, ideally you can shoot in self defense, but property lines are so close here(this house is ten feet away from ours), I can see that being an issue should someone be killed.

Besides, who wants that on their back?

I feel disappointed that the police are encouraging citizens to 'do it yourself'.

Do you feel this is appropriate? If the law states this is fine, should it remain that way? What purpose do the police serve in your area? What purpose do you feel they should serve? If you're not a US citizen, how would the reporting of an incident similar to ours go in your neck of the woods?

Police have been very become very political in many places.

We also have the problem that very few legislators will actually repeal bad laws. They just let the police stop enforcing them.

magic wand time I would end all city police forces and have everything run through the local sheriff’s office. Have state troopers for dealing with things that cross county lines. The feds should only get involved when a crime crosses a state line.

 

[ChristineM]

England, the police need a warrant signed by a judge.

France, police can evict squatters in they have not occupied the space for more than 48 hours.
After that it's down to the owner to obtain an eviction notice which can only be issued if the prefect of the department agrees.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

On the one hand we do not want police to have carte blanche to enter any property at any time.

No, but surely when there is evidence of a crime in progress. Which trespassing would be?

These hoodlums ought to be put into prison, but if the police search without a warrant and charge them these hoodlums may get released by a judge. It is a very serious matter, because it protects you from police -- from times when police go into places to discover what crimes may have been committed. It usually protects you from wiretapping, too. Now suppose a police officer doesn't like you, and suppose there is no law to restrain them. They enter your home to find something to accuse you of! Suppose they find your child playing with some mustard and accuse you of negligence and call the government to take away your children. You wouldn't think a police officer would do this, but its the kind of thing police do sometimes if not restrained from doing so.

1) We're not talking about people tucked away within their own house here though, right?
2) Police don't get to determine when children are taken away. At least, not unless the US system is very different.

On the other hand it sounds like they police ought to be watching that house, doesn't it? They could put a camera on it.

You're not okay with them entering the property, or wiretapping, but you're okay with them filming it?
What would they be looking for?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm left wondering what the purpose of our local police department is.

I will be the first to tell you that I'm here(meaning, alive) because a police officer intervened. I have always been aware I got lucky that that gentleman was on the shift that night, because not all officers are so diligent. However, I'm feeling a little confused and disturbed at moment after a scenario tonight.

As some know, we've dealt with some local thugs using the vacant house next door as their 'headquarters' to rob the neighborhood. It seems like a never ended game of see the turds, call the cops, cops come, nothing happens.

Apparently, they can't go in because the squatters lock the doors after themselves(even though you can see people in there, and lights flashing). However, I'm feeling particularly discouraged after tonight; the cops could see a person peeking out the window. The commanding officer jiggled the doorknob and said "sorry, locked. Can't go in." Huh, what? What do you mean you can't go in? "Need a search warrant." Even the other officers looked confused as to why they weren't going in, but didn't have the 'rank' to do anything.

We've dealt with this commanding officer before; he's rude, and tends to insult concerned citizens in the area. (My husband was watching last time this happened from the porch, and the guy guy screamed "did I give you ****ing permission to come outside?" My husband pointed out he was on his own property, and not bothering anything.) My husband asked tonight "so what do we do now?" the guy simply told him "buy a gun and protect your family."

WTF?

Now, a gun is not safe in this house. I have two kids with special needs and feisty and defiant ways, and I am fairly certain a gun in this particular household would go badly(sorry, gun enthusiasts, I'm not here to debate my *personal* situation regarding gun ownership). Not to mention, ideally you can shoot in self defense, but property lines are so close here(this house is ten feet away from ours), I can see that being an issue should someone be killed.

Besides, who wants that on their back?

I feel disappointed that the police are encouraging citizens to 'do it yourself'.

Do you feel this is appropriate? If the law states this is fine, should it remain that way? What purpose do the police serve in your area? What purpose do you feel they should serve? If you're not a US citizen, how would the reporting of an incident similar to ours go in your neck of the woods?

Hmm. I would think that the police would contact whoever owns that property and ask for permission to enter it after explaining the scenario? Or if nobody owns it I don't know how it'd work then... But I feel like literally seeing somebody in the window would be enough for them to acquire a search warrant or a warrant to put cameras out there?

Honestly I would suspect that this commanding officer is one of those "dirty cops" paid off by thugs to let them get away with things. But maybe I watch too many movies

I hope you and your family are safe, George. Such a shame you have to put up with this.

 

[Stevicus]

2) Police don't get to determine when children are taken away. At least, not unless the US system is very different.

Not directly, although the police could very easily make a referral to Child Protective Services or equivalent agency. A police report saying "officer observed parent abusing child" would be sufficient for CPS to take action.

You're not okay with them entering the property, or wiretapping, but you're okay with them filming it?
What would they be looking for?

Surveillance would be considered less intrusive, and there's nothing to prevent police from sitting on a public street.

 

[Stevicus]

Honestly I would suspect that this commanding officer is one of those "dirty cops" paid off by thugs to let them get away with things. But maybe I watch too many movies

I was thinking along the same lines. Considering how many times cops look for the slightest threadbare excuse to mess with people, the fact that this cop is looking for the slightest threadbare excuse to not do anything to protect the community is quite telling indeed. Cops can get warrants rather quickly if they need one, but this guy didn't even try.

 

[JustGeorge]

In the UK too, a search warrant is needed to enter private property. And that's probably right, when you think about it.

Can you not engage your neighbours, to avoid you being perhaps dismissed as a "purple file job", i.e. troublemaker/crank? They must be just as worried about this as you are.

And who owns it? If you don't know, can you find out by doing a land registry search? Can you and the neighbours contact them to see if they can get these squatters ejected?

First off... 'purple file job'. I gotta find out the meaning of this, so I can determine if I am one or not.

I just called the recorder's officer to see who owns it. Got a name, no contacts. I looked up the name online, and got a few various numbers, that either didn't work or didn't go to who it listed.

I did ask one officer if a petition from the neighborhood would help. He said he didn't know. I'm sure the neighbors would sign off... most of the folks on the block have had their houses broken into and stolen from, all while sleeping.

We thwarted our robbery; we're typically up until 1 or 2 am. When they came, my husband was on the back deck, and noticed a disturbance out front. He jumped the fence, went to the front door, and found three of them trying to break in.

I was pretty impressed he chased them all off by himself.

Reporting it to the police? About the same, I think.

Something that would work here and might work for you: complain to your city or town, not the police.

I think it's pretty standard that most towns' by-laws will require the owners of vacant buildings to secure them against entry. By-Law Enforcement can get pretty aggressive around here about fining deadbeat property owners.

If you turn your problem into a financial problem for the property owner, you will hopefully be able to get them calling police for a trespassing call, so the police wouldn't need a warrant to go in.

... and if the squatters keep coming back, hopefully continual fines to the property owner will give them enough motivation to just demolish the building.

I was told last night that if the owner does nothing about the squatters, the cops can't, either.

But.. you have a good idea here. If I can alert enough people to have the house declared a nuisance property, the owner will start having to pay for every time the cops are called.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not directly, although the police could very easily make a referral to Child Protective Services or equivalent agency. A police report saying "officer observed parent abusing child" would be sufficient for CPS to take action.

Sure...but that would also be the case if it were a teacher, a doctor, or a priest. Well...maybe a priest. Ahem.

Surveillance would be considered less intrusive, and there's nothing to prevent police from sitting on a public street.

I think it's still debateable from a legal standpoint. But I might be wrong, as there is a high degree of variance amongst jurisdictions.

A Police Camera That Never Tires Stirs Unease at 1st Circuit | Courthouse News Service

 

[SomeRandom]

On the one hand we do not want police to have carte blanche to enter any property at any time. These hoodlums ought to be put into prison, but if the police search without a warrant and charge them these hoodlums may get released by a judge. It is a very serious matter, because it protects you from police -- from times when police go into places to discover what crimes may have been committed. It usually protects you from wiretapping, too. Now suppose a police officer doesn't like you, and suppose there is no law to restrain them. They enter your home to find something to accuse you of! Suppose they find your child playing with some mustard and accuse you of negligence and call the government to take away your children. You wouldn't think a police officer would do this, but its the kind of thing police do sometimes if not restrained from doing so.

On the other hand it sounds like they police ought to be watching that house, doesn't it? They could put a camera on it.

I’m admittedly very much on the side of “ACAB” (all cops are…well not very nice, to put it mildly.) So I might be a tad biased.
But this does sound to me rather cowardly of your local police, to be completely honest.
They are supposed to serve and protect the community. Instead they leave citizens to the Wild West. Disgraceful.
Granted as mentioned earlier, without a warrant they can’t enter the house. So okay, that’s fair. But to just leave you with, eh just get yourself a gun, is to me a glaring failure on their part.
Since you sound like you need one

 

[Quagmire]

They suggested we put up cameras and they could do more, but, that costs a bit and may not be doable at this moment.

This might be an option:
Turn an old phone into a free wireless security camera in minutes.

It's a free app that lets you turn an old phone (even a broken phone as long as the camera's still working) into a security camera.

You have kids, I'm going to guess you have a broken phone or two lying around.

The app is in the Google Play store and has a 4.8 star rating.

Sorry you guys have to deal with this crap George.

 

[Father Heathen]

Try contacting a local news station. They eat stories up like this.