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Human cells in a rat's brain could shed light on autism and ADHD

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Human neuron clusters transplanted into rats offer new tool to study the brain : Shots - Health News : NPR

Scientists have demonstrated a new way to study conditions like autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, and schizophrenia.

The approach involves transplanting a cluster of living human brain cells from a dish in the lab to the brain of a newborn rat, a team from Stanford University reports in the journal Nature.

The cluster, known as a brain organoid, then continues to develop in ways that mimic a human brain and may allow scientists to see what goes wrong in a range of neuropsychiatric disorders.

"It's definitely a step forward," says Paola Arlotta, a prominent brain organoid researcher at Harvard University who was not involved in the study. "The ultimate goal of this work is to begin to understand features of complex diseases like schizophrenia, autism spectrum disorder, bipolar disorder."

But the advance is likely to make some people uneasy, says bioethicist Insoo Hyun, director of life sciences at the Museum of Science in Boston and an affiliate of the Harvard Medical School Center for Bioethics.

"There is a tendency for people to assume that when you transfer the biomaterials from one species into another, you transfer the essence of that animal into the other," Hyun says, adding that even the most advanced brain organoids are still very rudimentary versions of a human brain.

Clearing a scientific obstacle
The success in transplanting human brain organoids into a living animal appears to remove a major barrier to using them as models of human disease. It also represents the culmination of seven years of work overseen by Dr. Sergiu Pasca, a professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford.

Human brain organoids are made from pluripotent stem cells, which can be coaxed into becoming various types of brain cells. These cells are grown in a rotating container known as a bioreactor, which allows the cells to spontaneously form brain-like spheres about the size of a small pea.

But after a few months, the lab-grown organoids stop developing, says Pasca, whose lab at Stanford devised the transplant technique. Individual neurons in the cluster remain relatively small, he says, and make relatively few connections.

"No matter how long we keep them in a dish, they still do not become as complex as human neurons would be in an actual human brain," Pasca says. That may be one reason organoids have yet to reveal much about the origins of complex neuropsychiatric disorders, he says.

So Pasca's team set out to find an environment for the organoids that would allow them to continue growing and maturing. They found one in the brains of newborn rats.

Timothy Syndrome, a very rare genetic disorder that affects brain development in ways that can cause symptoms of autism spectrum disorder.

The team compared organoids made from the stem cells of healthy people with organoids made from the stem cells of patients with the syndrome. In the lab, the cell clusters looked the same.

"But once we transplanted and we looked 250 days later, we discovered that while control cells grew dramatically, patient cells failed to do so," Pasca says.

A better model, with ethical concerns

The experiments show that Pasca's team has developed a better model for studying human brain disorders, Arlotta says.

The key seems to be providing the transplanted organoids with sensory information that they don't get growing in a dish, she says, noting that an infant's brain needs this sort of stimulation to develop normally.

"It's the stuff that we get after we are born," she says, "especially when we begin to experience the world and hear sound, see light, and so on."

But as brain organoids become more like actual human brains, scientists will have to consider the ethical and societal implications of this research, Arlotta says.

"We need to be able to watch it, consider it, discuss it and stop it if we think we think one day we are at the point where we shouldn't progress," she says. "I think we are far, far away from that point right now."

Even the most advanced brain organoids have nothing even remotely like the capabilities of a human brain, says Hyun, who posted a video conversation he had with Pasca to coincide with the publication of the new study.

Yet many ethical discussions have focused on the possibility that an organoid could attain human-like consciousness.

"I think that's a mistake," Hyun says. "We don't exactly know what we mean by 'human-like consciousness,' and the nearer issue, the more important issue, is the well-being of the animals used in the research."

He says that wasn't a problem in the Pasca lab's experiments because the organoids didn't seem to harm the animals or change their behavior.

If human brain organoids are grown in larger, more complex animal brains, Hyun says, the cell clusters might develop in ways that cause the animals to suffer.

"What I'm concerned about," he says, "is what's next."

It sounds like an interesting study, and it could be beneficial for better understanding the intricacies of the brain.

But it also sounds like it could be a prelude to some sort of horror movie, with a new breed of supersmart rats with human brains wreaking havoc throughout the world.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Human neuron clusters transplanted into rats offer new tool to study the brain : Shots - Health News : NPR





It sounds like an interesting study, and it could be beneficial for better understanding the intricacies of the brain.

But it also sounds like it could be a prelude to some sort of horror movie, with a new breed of supersmart rats with human brains wreaking havoc throughout the world.

I don't like that my braIn goes wrong, because it doesn't. It is just neurodiverse. So a long as it is understood as goes wrong, it is not really science as that. That is politics, morality and what not, but not science.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Psychiatry desperately needs more insight into the inner workings of specific mental disorders and how they relate to brain function. This seems to have the potential to be a major breakthrough for mental health care and psychiatric medicine.

I also find it to be another example of the significance of medical animal testing, which has yet to have a viable alternative in medical research.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Psychiatry desperately needs more insight into the inner workings of specific mental disorders and how they relate to brain function. This seems to have the potential to be a major breakthrough for mental health care and psychiatric medicine.

I also find it to be another example of the significance of medical animal testing, which has yet to have a viable alternative in medical research.

And stop calling them disorders in some cases. I am not a "beep" disorder. Be more than just an atheist and question other aspects of culture than just religion. Read some modern multi sciences cross discipline texts and learn to spot when scientists do culture.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
And stop calling them disorders in some cases. I am not a "beep" disorder.

A disorder is a precise medical term for conditions that meet specific criteria. I don't have a problem with calling a condition that meets those requirements a "disorder" in accordance with medical consensus even when or if I have said condition. Having a disorder shouldn't be stigmatized either.

Be more than just an atheist and question other aspects of culture than just religion. Read some modern multi sciences cross discipline texts and learn to spot when scientists do culture.

I'm unclear on what you're saying here.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
A disorder is a precise medical term for conditions that meet specific criteria. I don't have a problem with calling a condition that meets those requirements a "disorder" in accordance with medical consensus even when or if I have said condition. Having a disorder shouldn't be stigmatized either.



I'm unclear on what you're saying here.

There is no objective evidence that it is a disorder. It is a cultural label.
You observe different brain behaviour and then you stick with that. I am not a disorder, I am a variation.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
There is no objective evidence that it is a disorder. It is a cultural label.
You observe different brain behaviour and then you stick with that. I am not a disorder, I am a variation.

We'll agree to disagree on that because I definitely don't think the label "disorder" is cultural when applied to certain conditions such as bipolar and schizophrenia, even though I agree it can be cultural in some instances.

This is a different topic from the OP, though, so it's best left for another thread.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Psychiatry desperately needs more insight into the inner workings of specific mental disorders and how they relate to brain function. This seems to have the potential to be a major breakthrough for mental health care and psychiatric medicine.

I also find it to be another example of the significance of medical animal testing, which has yet to have a viable alternative in medical research.

I'm not a fan of animal testing, even where it benefits me. That doesn't mean, aside from using humans either piad or volunteering, there's a viable alternative, but I think it's important to continue to question the experimentation of living things to benefit us.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not a fan of animal testing, even where it benefits me. That doesn't mean, aside from using humans either piad or volunteering, there's a viable alternative, but I think it's important to continue to question the experimentation of living things to benefit us.

I agree questioning it is necessary in order to keep it in check and strictly regulated. I don't think it should be banned when necessary for medical purposes, but I also think regulations are necessary to minimize animal suffering as much as possible.

I strongly believe that research should be done to look for an alternative, too. In the meantime, I will also keep believing that animal testers who operate under sound regulations shouldn't be demonized or condemned for their research when many people and animals alike wouldn't even be alive--at least not free of disease and immense suffering--if not for their efforts.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
We'll agree to disagree on that because I definitely don't think the label "disorder" is cultural when applied to certain conditions such as bipolar and schizophrenia, even though I agree it can be cultural in some instances.

This is a different topic from the OP, though, so it's best left for another thread.

No, not if you read enough science other than natural science. You claim one science. I claim all of them and not just natural science.
All humans are variations and even for schizophrenia, there are several ways to deal with that but that is individual down to the single human.
Either ban me for a time or learn. There is more than one science and one way to label other humans and how to deal with them.
I am a member of the last outcastes in Western culture and I will fight for all the variations including LGTBQ+ and all the other ones. But right now I am as me fighting for my kind of variation. I am not a disorder, I am neurodiverse.
So learn or lock me out. Your choice, your body, your life and stop labeling me as a disorder. That is not science. That is culture.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Autism isn't a disease. It's a developmental disorder/disability. Personally I prefer the term disability over disorder because of the connotations of disorder and I don't think of autism as harmful to the person nor do I wish for a cure but it's 100% not a disease. Disease and disorder are two different things.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Autism isn't a disease. It's a developmental disorder/disability. Personally I prefer the term disability over disorder because of the connotations of disorder and I don't think of autism as harmful to the person nor do I wish for a cure but it's 100% not a disease. Disease and disorder are two different things.

Even other disorders aren't really disorders in the strict sense. They are variations and how to deal with that is not the sole domain of natural science.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Even other disorders aren't really disorders in the strict sense. They are variations and how to deal with that is not the sole domain of natural science.
Whether it should be classified as such or not is up for debate. But according to psychologists autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder. Whether I agree or not is a different story. I personally think the term disorder is useful. I don't think it should apply to autism but I'm not the one making classifications. I also acknowledge the neurodiversity movement but I don't see an issue with calling things that cause most people stress disorders. Depression is a mental disorder and rightly so it can lead someone to suicide. The neurodiversity movement suggests we accept this is another way for the brain to be and that we be kind to others and provide accomadations but it doesn't say we can't acknowledge the pain it has caused folk and do what we can to alleviate any pain.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Whether it should be classified as such or not is up for debate. But according to psychologists autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder. Whether I agree or not is a different story. I personally think the term disorder is useful. I don't think it should apply to autism but I'm not the one making classifications. I also acknowledge the neurodiversity movement but I don't see an issue with calling things that cause people stress disorders.

But even calling it a disorder can cause stress in some cases. Read more science.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
But even calling it a disorder can cause stress in some cases. Read more science.
Show me the studies and I may consider what you say.

I edited my post you quoted. I'll say folk think calling things a disability causes stress but in reality it's just a fact of life and I know no disabled person who prefers another term over disability. Folk might feel the same about the word disorder
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Show me the studies and I may consider what you say.

I edited my post you quoted. I'll say folk think calling things a disability causes stress but in reality it's just a fact of life and I know no disabled person who prefers another term over disability. Folk might feel the same about the word disorder

I have the books, but they are in Danish.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There is no objective evidence that it is a disorder. It is a cultural label.
You observe different brain behaviour and then you stick with that. I am not a disorder, I am a variation.


There is objective evidence that schizophrenia is linked to abnormalities in the structure of the brain that cause
chemical imbalance leading to a chronic disorder.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Human neuron clusters transplanted into rats offer new tool to study the brain : Shots - Health News : NPR





It sounds like an interesting study, and it could be beneficial for better understanding the intricacies of the brain.

But it also sounds like it could be a prelude to some sort of horror movie, with a new breed of supersmart rats with human brains wreaking havoc throughout the world.

Sounds like pure fantasy on the probability level of the Frankenstein story.
 
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