Human Conditions and GODISM

[CircularLogic]

I am an agnostic. I have recently become to believe that God, or belief in deity is based on the human condition.

My question or debate would be, what is the most prevalent factor that causes people to believe in a form of God or deity? (GODISM) as I like to say.

It is obviously a combination of things, but I believe that most people choose a religion as a way to rationalize the infinite without fear.

 

[Orbital]

Indoctrination.

Although there are a lot of people have 'reasoned' themselves into a religion or belief in a deity, most people do not really go into it in much detail. Therefore indoctrination still remains the most prevalent factor in today's society.

 

[sandandfoam]

I believe we are all makers of our own universes. In conversation and in thought.
I often see a haughty disdain in atheists and agnostics for the shelter some believers seem to find from fear. I often wonder if this is best explained by the psychoanalytic concept of projection.
I say I believe in God because it is an approximation in my language of my perception.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

My question or debate would be, what is the most prevalent factor that causes people to believe in a form of God or deity? (GODISM) as I like to say.

I say a sense of purpose in life. A sense of family comfort. A sense of security. Those are the top choices of that pop up in my head.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

It is obviously a combination of things, but I believe that most people choose a religion as a way to rationalize the infinite without fear.

Of course they would want to rationalize the infinite nature of our universe. For somebody the knowledge of that everything that exist will one day be gone. So religion gives people a sense of hope that their exsitence will continue on after they die. Though it might be a false sense of hope, but is that truly a bad thing. If religion is a human condition it is one that still needed in presant day soicety.

 

[Orbital]

"but is that truly a bad thing"

If your ultimate goal in your life is to feel like you have got the answer instead of actually having it, then no it is not bad.

But with that same logic you can stick heroin in your arm and dream up a whole world for yourself, it might be a false sensation but at least it makes them feel good and gives them some sort of answer to all the questions they have.

I do not see religion as a human condition, since I have met many people that have never had the need to believe in some divine purpose to life.

 

[CircularLogic]

I understand these are all good reasons to believe in God. I have a lot of respect for some of the people that are into God. Although healthy, I think many of the reasons listed are still at root related to a rational way to understand the infinite, or things which are beyond control.

 

[Orbital]

"to understand the infinite"

Reminds me of when Deepak Chopra said that to Leonard Mlodinow... a moment which one can lol at

 

[Thesavorofpan]

"but is that truly a bad thing"

If your ultimate goal in your life is to feel like you have got the answer instead of actually having it, then no it is not bad.

But with that same logic you can stick heroin in your arm and dream up a whole world for yourself, it might be a false sensation but at least it makes them feel good and gives them some sort of answer to all the questions they have.

I do not see religion as a human condition, since I have met many people that have never had the need to believe in some divine purpose to life.

I don't think you can compare a drug addiction to religion. While the person may at first had turn to drugs escape reality, but eventually he just takes it because his body craves it.

 

[Orbital]

I don't think you can compare a drug addiction to religion. While the person may at first had turn to drugs escape reality, but eventually he just takes it because his body craves it.

Wouldn't you get the same things with religion?

An emotionally satisfying relationship build up with this community around this god concept can leave a devastating hole in ones life when left. Stress levels can be reduced by repetitive calming behaviour, this behaviour can be anything from tapping your fingers to going to church every week, whatever it is you would create an addiction to it, especially if you have been doing it all your life (although this would be more of a psychological addiction).

 

[Man of Faith]

It is because we aren't complete without a relationship with God.

 

[Eliot Wild]

It is because we aren't complete without a relationship with God.

I respectfully disagree.

However, perhaps I simply misunderstand what you mean by 'complete'. Would you mind giving us a definition of what it means to be 'complete'? I assume you are speaking metaphorically, and I don't understand what 'completeness' completely entails. For example, I have all my body parts, my dangling extremities and all my necessary internal organs. And given this antatomical 'wholeness', I feel perfectly complete. Although, once when I was twelve or thirteen, they threatened to take out my tonsils . . . I got better.

If we just limit this question to the world's top ten most practiced religions, then that is ten different gods. All of 'em can't be the divine creator of the universe. You know, like they say in the Highlander movies, "There Can be Only One!!"

So, in other words, there are lots of people out there who feel totally 'complete', or so it would seem, while engaging in a relationships with imaginary gods or none at all. How does this rationally fit with the suggestion that people are incomplete without a relationship with God?

 

[Man of Faith]

I respectfully disagree.

However, perhaps I simply misunderstand what you mean by 'complete'. Would you mind giving us a definition of what it means to be 'complete'? I assume you are speaking metaphorically, and I don't understand what 'completeness' completely entails. For example, I have all my body parts, my dangling extremities and all my necessary internal organs. And given this antatomical 'wholeness', I feel perfectly complete. Although, once when I was twelve or thirteen, they threatened to take out my tonsils . . . I got better.

If we just limit this question to the world's top ten most practiced religions, then that is ten different gods. All of 'em can't be the divine creator of the universe. You know, like they say in the Highlander movies, "There Can be Only One!!"

So, in other words, there are lots of people out there who feel totally 'complete', or so it would seem, while engaging in a relationships with imaginary gods or none at all. How does this rationally fit with the suggestion that people are incomplete without a relationship with God?

Man looks for meaning and purpose, God provides it.

 

[TheKnight]

I am an agnostic. I have recently become to believe that God, or belief in deity is based on the human condition.

My question or debate would be, what is the most prevalent factor that causes people to believe in a form of God or deity? (GODISM) as I like to say.

I believe that people have an inherent need for belief in something like God.

It is obviously a combination of things, but I believe that most people choose a religion as a way to rationalize the infinite without fear.

That would be true if the idea of God did rationalize the idea of the infinite. It doesn't. It doesn't rationalize anything really, it complicates things. The vast majority believe in a deity because they were taught to. Those of us who believe beyond what we are taught believe we believe it is apparent that there is a God.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Man looks for meaning and purpose, God provides it.

Does God provide it, or does the 'Belief in God' provide meaning and purpose?

There are obviously people who believe in gods that do not exist. For example, I once heard of a group that called themselves "The Universe Children of Cosmic Light", or something like that. And they believe that God revolves around the Earth in an invisible spaceship. I swear, I'm not making that up. While I suppose that is as plausible a concept for the divine as some others, I'm betting against these Children of Cosmic Light being dead-on correct in this matter.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say they are correct and that God does indeed revolve around the Earth in a spaceship. That would mean all other gods would be fabrications. Either way, not all theists can be right.

So, how do you reasonably explain your proposal that people feel incomplete without a relationship with God, when there are obviously lots of people running around who are NOT engaged in a relationship with THE actual God, but feel they are correct. It would seem to me, if you are correct and if a person does in fact lack a functional relationship with God, then they will feel incomplete, there would be no false religions, 'cause everyone would be unfulfilled and incomplete from the lack of a relationship with the TRUE God.

 

[Man of Faith]

Does God provide it, or does the 'Belief in God' provide meaning and purpose?

There are obviously people who believe in gods that do not exist. For example, I once heard of a group that called themselves "The Universe Children of Cosmic Light", or something like that. And they believe that God revolves around the Earth in an invisible spaceship. I swear, I'm not making that up. While I suppose that is as plausible a concept for the divine as some others, I'm betting against these Children of Cosmic Light being dead-on correct in this matter.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say they are correct and that God does indeed revolve around the Earth in a spaceship. That would mean all other gods would be fabrications. Either way, not all theists can be right.

So, how do you reasonably explain your proposal that people feel incomplete without a relationship with God, when there are obviously lots of people running around who are NOT engaged in a relationship with THE actual God, but feel they are correct. It would seem to me, if you are correct and if a person does in fact lack a functional relationship with God, then they will feel incomplete, there would be no false religions, 'cause everyone would be unfulfilled and incomplete from the lack of a relationship with the TRUE God.

The belief in an incorrect god actually validates my position. Mankind searches for meaning and purpose and that search can lead to the correct god or an incorrect god.

 

[Eliot Wild]

The belief in an incorrect god actually validates my position. Mankind searches for meaning and purpose and that search can lead to the correct god or an incorrect god.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please correct me if I'm misstating this, but it sounds like you're saying, we aren't necessarily incomplete without a relationship with God, we are incomplete lest we find meaning and purpose in our lives. And that meaning and purpose could come from unreal, make-believe gods that people have unfortunately stumbled upon before finding the real thing.

 

[Man of Faith]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please correct me if I'm misstating this, but it sounds like you're saying, we aren't necessarily incomplete without a relationship with God, we are incomplete lest we find meaning and purpose in our lives. And that meaning and purpose could come from unreal, make-believe gods that people have unfortunately stumbled upon before finding the real thing.

It looks like I didn't finish my train of thought very well. When we find the correct God, we are complete and fulfilled. A false god can give us some comfort just like belonging to a club of model train enthusiasts can give us some satisfaction in life, but being complete takes God and that takes knowing the only true God.

You probably don't notice but those that worship a false god aren't complete and fulfilled. They are worried about getting to Heaven, not about knowing God and having a relationship with him. That doesn't offer fulfillment, just more questions.

 

[Man of Faith]

You probably don't notice but those that worship a false god aren't complete and fulfilled. They are worried about getting to Heaven, not about knowing God and having a relationship with him. That doesn't offer fulfillment, just more questions.

How could he notice, he doesn't know which are the false gods.

 

[Eliot Wild]

It looks like I didn't finish my train of thought very well. When we find the correct God, we are complete and fulfilled. A false god can give us some comfort just like belonding to a club of model train enthusiasts can give us some satisfaction in life, but being complete takes God and that takes knowing the only true God.

You probably don't notice but those that worship a false god aren't complete and fulfilled. They are worried about getting to Heaven, not about knowing God and having a relationship with him. That doesn't offer a fulfillment, just more questions.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Actually, I'm in agreement with pretty much all of your first paragraph above, but not so much with the second.

I would agree that obviously, if we ever met THE God, we'd be pretty happy and fulfilled about the experience. Hell, I once got to meet Earl Campbell, the former gifted Hall-of-Fame runningback for the Houston Oilers, and I've been telling that story ever since, anytime someone gives me the chance. Imagine how much more fulfilling it would be to meet God . . . although, I am a pretty big Titans/Oilers fan, so that brush-with-greatness was quite 'Sweeeeeeeet' for me.

However, I disagree that all people who worship false gods or who worship no gods at all lack the appearance of fulfillment and completeness. Some of the happiest, most fulfilled people I've ever met were atheists, or it certainly seemed like it to me. I've also met fulfilled Muslims, many on this site who believe their God, Allah, is the true and correct divine creator of the universe. I've met fulfilled Christians who feel the same way. I've also met practitioners of many others religions who feel fulfilled and blessed though they worship completely different gods altogether.

And here's the deal, I certainly don't mean to be offensive. Seriously, that is not my intent. But I just believe it to be a bit dismissive of the OP and somewhat religiously flippant to say man is 'incomplete' without God. Again, no offense, but that sounds like a pat answer that is far too convenient to be of any real worth to many who are sincerely searching for evidence of the divine but still failing to find it.

I certainly don't mean this toward you, at least not pointedly, but I am often bothered by religious practitioners who reach into their bag of answers and just throw out something meaningless and therefore ultimately worthless to others who are truly, sincerely striving to find evidence of the divine. I don't think we all need 'meaning and purpose', at least not of a God-inspired or religious kind, in our lives to feel contentment and fulfillment. There are many people who feel 'complete' and content in the notion that there is no ultimate meaning, that they are merely animated carbon motivated by electrically-sparked neurons firing in their brains, or something like that.

So, I appreciate your responses, but I respectfully disagree. I think there is certainly more to it than what you have provided. It seems that while 'meaning and purpose' might be part of the reason some people gravitate toward religion and God-models, there is nothing that reasonably explains, much less conclusively proves, that people search for God to be 'complete'. That is just too vague of a term. There are very specific, very definite reasons that people choose to worship gods, or so it seems to me. But, I am always comfortable with the possibility that I might be wrong.