Hunter Biden indicted today on 3 federal gun charges

[Riders]

If he is taking narcotics should they consider rehab instead of jail?

 

[Secret Chief]

Seldom do I get told anything to do with me is a breath of fresh air...

@Secret Chief would never believe it.

I think the fresh air is only metaphorical.

 

[metis]

Witch hunt or legitimate charges?

Legitimate based on Hunter's own admission.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Witch hunt or legitimate charges? Now remember, 'the law is the law'(for those that use that arguement)

"Two counts are tied to Biden allegedly completing a form indicating he was not using illegal drugs when he purchased a Colt Cobra revolver in October 2018. The third count alleges that he possessed a firearm while using a narcotic"

Hunter Biden indicted on federal gun charges

The president's son was indicted after a plea agreement on tax and gun charges fell apart in July and as House Republicans investigate his finances.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

It is a sign that the US is a country not afraid to indict the son of the president. On a global level, I think this makes the US one of the most free and democratic countries in at least the application of the rule of law. Props to the justice system, in this situation.

 

[We Never Know]

If he is taking narcotics should they consider rehab instead of jail?

If only drugs, sure.

But as several here on the forum have said, its time to stop letting the politicians, the rich, etc get away with crimes without punishment. They are not above the law.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Legitimate based on Hunter's own admission.

I am not so sure about that. If this is the same law that he was charged under earlier it may not even be a constitutional law. If they have only used that law as a primary charge against him that would be a sign that it is a witch hunt. I am now a fully versed YouTube lawyer For whatever that is worth. I have seen that at times the prosecution has made plea bargains using legal fictions. Legal fictions are useful if one wants to offer a plea bargain and still want the crimes that the person was accused of in their records somehow. They usually mention the crimes, but as the accused person actually did them, or anyone for that matter, they never happened and at times could not happen. What they appear to be are laws where the legislature screwed up a bit and they passed. Rather than use them in specific crimes, where they could be found to be unconstitutional, they are used in plea bargains. They allow the person to plea to a lesser charge. Their wrong doing is still on the books after a fashion. And the person cannot appeal it. A person can renege on his plea, but then everything goes out the window and he is recharged. Usually with the more serious charges that they could have found him guilty of in the first place, but they just wanted to avoid the trial.

Forcing a trial on Hunter is only intended to put more political pressure on President Biden. It does not appear to be based upon justice to me since this is a more severe reaction that would be normal for fairly low level crimes and a person with a rather minimal criminal record.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If only drugs, sure.

But as several here on the forum have said, its time to stop letting the politicians, the rich, etc get away with crimes without punishment. They are not above the law.

No one has been proposing that. What has been pointed out that this is punishment beyond the norm. You should follow some actual court cases and see how in minor level crimes how the final crimes that a person pleads guilty to are far less than the original charges.

 

[metis]

I am not so sure about that. If this is the same law that he was charged under earlier it may not even be a constitutional law. If they have only used that law as a primary charge against him that would be a sign that it is a witch hunt. I am now a fully versed YouTube lawyer For whatever that is worth. I have seen that at times the prosecution has made plea bargains using legal fictions. Legal fictions are useful if one wants to offer a plea bargain and still want the crimes that the person was accused of in their records somehow. They usually mention the crimes, but as the accused person actually did them, or anyone for that matter, they never happened and at times could not happen. What they appear to be are laws where the legislature screwed up a bit and they passed. Rather than use them in specific crimes, where they could be found to be unconstitutional, they are used in plea bargains. They allow the person to plea to a lesser charge. Their wrong doing is still on the books after a fashion. And the person cannot appeal it. A person can renege on his plea, but then everything goes out the window and he is recharged. Usually with the more serious charges that they could have found him guilty of in the first place, but they just wanted to avoid the trial.

Forcing a trial on Hunter is only intended to put more political pressure on President Biden. It does not appear to be based upon justice to me since this is a more severe reaction that would be normal for fairly low level crimes and a person with a rather minimal criminal record.

The facts are the facts, and the fact is he broke the law.

However, because he never used the gun and was on drugs and did no harm, this generally gets a probation decision. And the irony is that many states don't even have the necessity of background states nor permits to carry.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The facts are the facts, and the fact is he broke the law.

Yes, but that particular law may be unconstitutional. Which is why it is used in plea bargaining. Since both sides "win" in a plea bargain the law is not apt to be challenged.

However, because he never used the gun and was on drugs and did no harm, this generally gets a probation decision. And the irony is that many states don't even have the necessity of background states nor permits to carry.

Yep, and the law does "exist" for now. But this could take a badly written law off the books and he could end up waling if they pursue this prosecution.

The point is that Biden never got a "sweetheart deal". He got the same sort of deal that anyone else with a similar criminal record would have gotten. Now they are making the mistake of trying to prosecute him excessively due to politics.

 

[metis]

Yes, but that particular law may be unconstitutional. Which is why it is used in plea bargaining. Since both sides "win" in a plea bargain the law is not apt to be challenged.

Unconstitutional on which basis? Laws dealing with registering weapons usually are ruled constitutional.

The point is that Biden never got a "sweetheart deal". He got the same sort of deal that anyone else with a similar criminal record would have gotten. Now they are making the mistake of trying to prosecute him excessively due to politics.

Here, I 100% agree with you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unconstitutional on which basis? Laws dealing with registering weapons usually are ruled constitutional.

I would have to look it up again. But if I remember correctly it appears to be a form of prior restraint. One can lose one's Second Amendment rights if one has been convicted of a felony, but Biden has never been even charged with a felony prior to this. Misdemeanors, yes, but not felonies. That is why it may be unconstitutional. Now I do not want drug addicts to run around with guns either, but the 2nd Amendment is, whether we agree or not, rather protective of the ability of people to own guns. I think that the law is a good idea, but it probably runs afoul of the 2nd Amendment.

Here, I 100% agree with you.

Yay!!! LOL

 

[We Never Know]

The facts are the facts, and the fact is he broke the law.

However, because he never used the gun and was on drugs and did no harm, this generally gets a probation decision. And the irony is that many states don't even have the necessity of background states nor permits to carry.

Yep. Just like Trump is a liar and sexually assaulted a woman, Hunter lied on a federal form to obtain a gun illegally.

Point being they both lie to benefit only them, they can't be trusted. What else have they lied about?

 

[Shaul]

The fix is in. Hunter Biden will never serve any prison time.

 

[We Never Know]

Witch hunt or legitimate charges? Now remember, 'the law is the law'(for those that use that arguement)

"Two counts are tied to Biden allegedly completing a form indicating he was not using illegal drugs when he purchased a Colt Cobra revolver in October 2018. The third count alleges that he possessed a firearm while using a narcotic"

Hunter Biden indicted on federal gun charges

The president's son was indicted after a plea agreement on tax and gun charges fell apart in July and as House Republicans investigate his finances.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Well you gotta hand it to Joe for saying he wont pardon Hunter. Time will tell if he sticks with it.

"President Joe Biden will not pardon Hunter Biden if he's convicted on federal charges, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said Friday.

Asked during the daily briefing if the president would pardon or commute his son's sentence if he gets convicted on the gun charges against him, Jean-Pierre told reporters he would not. It's the first time the White House has explicitly said a potential pardon is not on the table following Hunter Biden's indictment this week."

Biden won't pardon his son if he's convicted, White House says

Press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters that the president would not pardon or commute Hunter Biden's sentence if he's convicted on federal gun charges.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yep. Just like Trump is a liar and sexually assaulted a woman, Hunter lied on a federal form to obtain a gun illegally.

Point being they both lie to benefit only them, they can't be trusted. What else have they lied about?

Yes, both illegal acts. The problem is that this may not qualify as a felony. When it comes to a constitutional right one may not be able to create a felony that easily.

 

[We Never Know]

Yes, both illegal acts. The problem is that this may not qualify as a felony. When it comes to a constitutional right one may not be able to create a felony that easily.

Here its a free one for you. While few are prosecuted, lying on a form to obtain a firearm is illegal and a felony and can be prosecuted as such.

"This Form requires buyers to answer several questions, including those about the buyer's competency, criminal history, drug use, immigration status, and history with domestic violence. Applicants who knowingly make false statements may also face criminal prosecution for a felony and up to 10 years in federal prison"

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions | ATF

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Western District of Oklahoma is aggressively seeking to keep firearms out of the wrong hands by pursuing those who lie in connection with gun purchases. Several recent cases charged in federal court highlight these efforts.

www.atf.gov

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions

www.justice.gov

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here its a free one for you. While few are prosecuted, lying on a form to obtain a firearm is illegal and a felony and can be prosecuted as such.

"This Form requires buyers to answer several questions, including those about the buyer's competency, criminal history, drug use, immigration status, and history with domestic violence. Applicants who knowingly make false statements may also face criminal prosecution for a felony and up to 10 years in federal prison"

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions | ATF

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Western District of Oklahoma is aggressively seeking to keep firearms out of the wrong hands by pursuing those who lie in connection with gun purchases. Several recent cases charged in federal court highlight these efforts.

www.atf.gov

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions

www.justice.gov

Yes. I know that. But one cannot just make up laws when it comes to constitutional rights. You should know that. The government cannot come and just take your guns away from you by making laws that ban them.

When making laws in regards to firearms the Second Amendment must be taken into consideration. That is why this law may be unconstitutional

Do you understand that sketchy laws can be and are used in plea bargaining cases when the prosecution wants to get a wrong doing noted, but does not want to go to a jury trial. The one example that we went over in the past was one where it was a plea bargain, if the person went back on his plea, which he could do, then they prosecution would have gone back to their original more serious charges. Sketchy laws can be useful tools. It gives the prosecution a greater range of punishments when the offer plea bargains. But if Hunter is found guilty you can bet that he will appeal on the constitutionality of that law. It seems to be a bit extreme to risk throwing away a tool like that for what was in reality a minor offense.

 

[We Never Know]

Yes. I know that. But one cannot just make up laws when it comes to constitutional rights. You should know that. The government cannot come and just take your guns away from you by making laws that ban them.

When making laws in regards to firearms the Second Amendment must be taken into consideration. That is why this law may be unconstitutional

Do you understand that sketchy laws can be and are used in plea bargaining cases when the prosecution wants to get a wrong doing noted, but does not want to go to a jury trial. The one example that we went over in the past was one where it was a plea bargain, if the person went back on his plea, which he could do, then they prosecution would have gone back to their original more serious charges. Sketchy laws can be useful tools. It gives the prosecution a greater range of punishments when the offer plea bargains. But if Hunter is found guilty you can bet that he will appeal on the constitutionality of that law. It seems to be a bit extreme to risk throwing away a tool like that for what was in reality a minor offense.

"But one cannot just make up laws when it comes to constitutional rights"

What law is being made up?
He lied on the form(ATF Form 4473), its illegal
It was illegal for him to possess a gun

 

[Subduction Zone]

"But one cannot just make up laws when it comes to constitutional rights"

What law is being made up?
He lied on the form, its illegal
It was illegal for him to possess a gun

That is called "prior restraint" in the law and when it comes to constitutional rights they are almost always unconstitutional.

He had not been found guilty of even a misdemeanor at that point in time. The law looks to be on very thin ice. Or are you saying that if the government suddenly made your guns illegal that you would abide by that law or fight it because it was unconstitutional?

 

[We Never Know]

That is called "prior restraint" in the law and when it comes to constitutional rights they are almost always unconstitutional.

He had not been found guilty of even a misdemeanor at that point in time. The law looks to be on very thin ice. Or are you saying that if the government suddenly made your guns illegal that you would abide by that law or fight it because it was unconstitutional?

You.keep making claims but not supporting them. We are done until you support your claims.

One last freebie...

Federal law prohibits many people from owning and possessing both firearms and ammunition. This includes convicted felons, illegal aliens, people who’ve been dishonorably discharged from the military, people who’ve been convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence offense, and “unlawful users” of controlled substances.

plus he lied on a federal form to obtain a gun.