Hurting the body ?

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam everyone,

I have a question regarding hurting your body.

In many tradition, Yogis or devotees hurt themselves by different means for different occasions. It is seen as an act of repentance, or/and a mean to strenghten the body/mind and surely many other things I'm not supposed to know.

If it's done then I suppose it's still in accordance with non violence, and thus don't produce bad karma ?

Well...I'm facing many problems and difficulties in my life. It's sure not of interest for anyone here, so I won't explain much. But I have very violents depressive crisis sometimes, my will or faith cannot do anything about that...And it doesn't end very well every time. The other day I completely lost myself and ended up hurting my body. Not very severe, but I guess I'll have some more scars.

I wanted to know if I had to make excuses to Mahadev and Devi Mata for this, if it produced bad karma ?

Is it the action of hurting yourself (for any reason, religious etc...) that produce karma, or is the intention of hurting yourself (for any reason, religious etc...) that produce karma ?

I'm sorry if I bother anyone, it wasn't my intention. I'm very confused about this issue....I'm afraid to have deceived Mahadev. I would run to His arms like a father usually, but...I never complained or asked anything from Him, never. And I don't want to bother Him with some personnal issues...

Well, I don't really know. If anyone have information regarding this, I would be glad to know

Sorry if I disturbed anyone with this useless topic xD

Have a good night !

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't think it would be dharmic to hurt one's body because of a lack of self-control, or anger at oneself. I would see it as 'partial suicide' or some such thing from depression or disorder.

Penances like kavadi are completely different as the active devotee is fully in control and has a definite purpose in mind.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

JayaBholenath;3120932]Vanakkam everyone,

Namaste

If it's done then I suppose it's still in accordance with non violence, and thus don't produce bad karma ?

I wanted to know if I had to make excuses to Mahadev and Devi Mata for this, if it produced bad karma ?

Is it the action of hurting yourself (for any reason, religious etc...) that produce karma, or is the intention of hurting yourself (for any reason, religious etc...) that produce karma ?

Aum Namah Shivaya

I cant give much advise on how to control your personal dilemma, but will try to explain what i think about Karma and actions.

I personally believe that karma is just cause and effect, so hurting ones body would produce obvious physical and mental effects.

Karma is just our actions that produce a effect, we dont have control over the effects but we can control the cause that may lesson the effect.

everything produces karma, every action produces reaction, we have to control our actions by any means possible.

Yajur Veda 40.2 only doing good Karma here should people wish to live a hundred years. No way is there for you for emancipation but this. So Karma cleaveth not to you.

I think the intention and action will both produce some Karma. So i think Good intentions and Good actions are required to reduce the effects of Karma.

I would think Mahadev Ji and Shakti Mata Ji would not want to see you hurt your body, As being OMnipresent the supreme also is present in our body, so please try not to hurt your self and others.

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Maya3]

I also think that karma is just cause and effect. So yes if you hurt your body so that you have scars, then the karma of that hurt is the scar.
But mental hurt may leave mental scars too.

I have been through a lot too this year. It's hard not get really angry sometimes.
Do you have anyone to talk to? There are support groups on the internet that can help or local to where you live.

Maya

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Tapas (loosely translatable as 'penance') is not self-harm, it's disciplining the sensorial mind towards non-attachment. Unfortunately, it's also rather self-involved and is thus a double-edged sword.

 

[Maija]

Jayaji,

I completely understand. For years I struggled with this type of behavior and have representations on my body to recall those rough times, (feel free to message me for support or anything at all). Fortunately, it was not hard to stop the PHYSICAL inflictions, not limited to cutting, what was harder to stop was the emotional and mental state of mind that lead up to that.

I won't lie and say that I understand religious inflicted harm, regardless of if it is called self harm or tapas..not just because of where I come from but because I think that there's no delight that Mahadev must take in watching it all unfold.

Seek support of those you trust and love and remain close Mahadev and Devi Mata.

 

[Kalibhakta]

I'm sorry if I bother anyone, it wasn't my intention. I'm very confused about this issue....I'm afraid to have deceived Mahadev. I would run to His arms like a father usually, but...I never complained or asked anything from Him, never. And I don't want to bother Him with some personnal issues...

I want to say this, because this just screams out for my attention.

I am not a Shaivite, but I love Lord Shiva, dearly. He is beautiful, merciful, pleasant god who resents nothing, and is all forgiving. Lord Shiva is famous and infamous for just how generous he is with his grace, and just how easy to please him. Do not fear approaching him. Now, I have read a story in a book I own, which I sadly cannot find online, (If I can find the book in question I can try again!) in which a thief and an adulterer stole some flowers from a man's garden for his paramour and was caught. In an arrogant manner, he tosses the flowers, boasting that they where for Lord Shiva, and that very moment, he was stolen to heaven, that that simple, half-hearted act was enough to please the Lord to forgiving his sins. I do not want you thinking that whatever problems you have are insurmountable, and I do not want you to think you would be wasting the Lord's time by coming to him, for Lord Shiva devotes are beloved to him, and I, even as a stranger, would beseech you to know that you would never have to struggle alone.

Jai Maha Devi Kali Ma!

 

[Shuddhasattva]

He is beautiful, merciful, pleasant god who resents nothing, and is all forgiving. Lord Shiva is famous and infamous for just how generous he is with his grace!

I wrote a short story some time ago concerning this, will send via PM on request.

 

[Kalibhakta]

I wrote a short story some time ago concerning this, will send via PM on request.

I would love that more then anything! Please do share.

 

[Onkara]

If it's done then I suppose it's still in accordance with non violence, and thus don't produce bad karma ?

Aum Namah Shivaya, JayaBholenath.
This isn't karma, it is the gunas. There are two forces: Karma and Prakriti. Prakriti consists of Gunas and it is the Gunas which make you suffer and hurt. You are Atma which is known as sat-chit-ananda.

MahaDev is compassion and love.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam everyone

Thank you very much for your answers and your support. Tapas was the right word, thank you Shuddasattva ji, I forgot about it !
I have of course high regards for people that perform all sort of penances, tapas involving hurt in the body involved. I'm deep admiration for Sri Parvati Devi, who did all the tapas to please Lord Shiva !

I don't seek to justify my actions by this however, far from me the idea to identify those...Shameful acts as tapas. I do not do this for God, I do no do this for any good, I'm aware of that and that's why I call those actions shameful. Wasting energy doing this instead of Sadhana is not worthy of a good devotee.
However it is a urge very difficult to stop sometimes

I didn't tough of the tree Gunas, it is sure an interesting view ! Then I understand more, please correct me if I'm wrong:

physical tapas dedicated to aim for self realisation are then rooted in Sattva, and thus the result of those successful penances shall be Sattvic then.

But my actions takes root in depression and anger, which are Tamas. Then the results should not be anything else than tamasic.

However it doesn't seems to be like this, for the last part. Before the action, I can figure my mind as a spiral going down. Which mean I'll be rooted in extreme Tamasic state of mind more and more worsened. The action taken, motivated by anger to oneself and a urge I can't describe, act as a liberation from this spiral.
The moment I respond to this urge, I feel liberated. Like "are you happy now ? You've gone too far, now get up and act to get you out of this".

The result is then physically bad (wounded) but morally somewhat-good (realisation that something went wrong, regrets, and acceptance to move forward)

I do not promote doing this to anyone, don't get me wrong please...It's a very bad act, I'm aware of that. Yet I lack the ressources to fight this, I wanted to know what it could involve for me in a dharmic point of view...

Even if I'm not born in a hindu family I felt the last years my faith becoming more and more a part of me, and a part of everything else around me. From the fatality of this act, I moved to a will to understand what are the more subtle consequences it would have, and try to understand and correct this behavior. I'm aware I'm not a young hating life rebel teen anymore since long time, so the fact that those kind of actions are still occurring should be tried to be understood and corrected, and knowing more about this in Sanatana Dharma, the will and results of those pious disciplines against my will and results is a great help understanding how it works.

I'm sorry if I seem confused, it's not my intention to seems like an attention whore too :sorry1:

If people knew that kind of problem (because it's not a game, it's a real problem) and succeeded to get out of it, I'm sincerely happy for you. It gives me hopes that maybe one day I'll be able to settle what is not right

I'll try to learn more about tapas, even if it's a little difficult when you're not born into indian culture directly.

I forgot about one essential thing, surrender I don't want to bother my Lord and yet, I know He knows everything, He knows me more than anyone else, then I should just come to Him and surrender. My love for Him is so deep, I do not fear.
Maybe by not wanting to bother Him with personnal and selfish issues, I try to convince myself that I'm "good", yet in fact since Mahadev is everywhere in all actions and beings, then I'm just being an hypocrite to Him...I'm very humble girl, but maybe by acting like this and refusing to surrender, I've just become prideful. I should accept surrender, accept receiving love (and not only giving it) maybe it will make everything better =/


I think I understand more, thanks to all of you

Please, if I'm wrong somewhere, feel free to correct. I feel a little dumb now having created this....But...Your comments seems to have helped gaining more clear inside

Thank you

Aum NamahShivaya

 

[Onkara]

Aum Namah Shivaya
JayaBholenath
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings however uncomfortable it is. You are not alone in your struggle with life and its ups and downs and likewise there is a way to break the spiral and find more fruitful responses to life's emotional and stressful challenges.

God is like an anchor or a rock which is always there, something we can cling to when the current gets rough. God is pure goodness and for me He is my ideal. Religion is simply self-improvement in motion. A way to become the person we want to be: pure goodness and joy.

The gunas are represented in thoughts and emotions. Using the intellect we can intercept these thoughts. The mind's eye can see a thought and its quality e.g. negative, good, passionate. The intellect can then guide us away from those thoughts and into the current of a different Guna. So for example, when we observe with our mind's eye that our mind is becoming negative, destructive and down, we can use the intellect to pick ourselves up and move into a new way of thinking and moving. We can move into Raja guna, which is action, movement, passion. This needs to be done at the time we notice the mind is under rajas guna. If we repeat this enough it will become a new way of being and a new way of living. It will become a way of living with control and you will become the master (or mistress) of your mind. Gentle practice at first will lead to strength later.

Don't forget you are not alone, you have your friends here on RF and I am sure there are people who love and care for you in the 'offline world'. :group: