• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I am the living bread

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
I like it.

There are many layers of symbols and they are woven into their positions.

Like this is another layer of symbols:

Cattle - Goats - Sheep

And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel

I have added the layer:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Notice the goat is in the wilderness.

And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus.

Because the two symbols goat and wilderness are in the same position representing the same thing. Like wilderness and sword.


As cattle have spears in another group.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Listen to this:

Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm.


Its not crazy talk. Its a symbolic language.

So for cattle to get silver they would have to go from the desert to the wilderness. Because the desert is a place of brass.

Can you understand that or do I sound crazy?

Are we able to have a symbolic conversation?


There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Corinthians.


It at first seems more polite and indirect than what Jesus says when he calls very pious people 'Vipers'; but really it is the same thing. By calling someone a 'Viper' he is probably referring to them as the brazen serpent in the desert which shares the same problem as manna. I am realizing this just now as a result of this conversation. There are at least 3 similar things that share the same problem as manna: manna, the brazen serpent and the location of the tabernacle. There is some theme in the ancient scriptures about moving on to the next level, the next location, getting with the program, moving forward etc. Jesus appeals to this through calling himself 'Living bread' and through calling others 'Vipers'. To me he means (paraphrased) "The glory has moved on. Move the tent."
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
This is according to (anonymous) John, kindly quote about it from Matthew and Mark, please? Right?
Isn't there every possibility/probability that (anonymous) John had been doctored by the Hellenist Paulines since the time Hellenist Paul heard (might be a devilish) voice posing as Jesus , while Hellenist Paul never was in the company of Jesus to recognize this voice, please? Right?
If it is an important matter, it must have been reported in consensus by all the four Gospel, please, right?
Does it not make Jesus a subordinate of the whims of the scribes/clergy/church, and smells like they were inventing a new religion than following the path of Jesus in his teachings and deeds, please? Right?
It is a point to ponder, please. Right?

Regards
__________
For timeline post #123

The synoptics have the same idea in their gospels. John did not include the last supper meal but included the same message another way.
But you don't seem to be interested in what it might mean.

Matt 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Mark 14:22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There are many layers of symbols and they are woven into their positions.

Like this is another layer of symbols:

Cattle - Goats - Sheep

And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel

I have added the layer:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Notice the goat is in the wilderness.

And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus.

Because the two symbols goat and wilderness are in the same position representing the same thing. Like wilderness and sword.


As cattle have spears in another group.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Listen to this:

Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm.


Its not crazy talk. Its a symbolic language.

So for cattle to get silver they would have to go from the desert to the wilderness. Because the desert is a place of brass.

Can you understand that or do I sound crazy?

Are we able to have a symbolic conversation?


There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Corinthians.
I totally missed that! I have just been completely oblivious. Is there a little book or someone who has written down all of these threes? That is a neat idea.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
I totally missed that! I have just been completely oblivious. Is there a little book or someone who has written down all of these threes? That is a neat idea.

Their language is more than weaving symbols into groups of three. Like there are four groups if you include the Earth.

Here is another layer of symbols with the fourth one added:

Iron - Brass - Silver - Gold

The treasury of the Lord:

But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord. Joshua

Added to other layers:

South - North - West - East
Iron - Brass - Silver - Gold
Earth - Desert - Wilderness - Mountain


Above the Earth of Iron is the heaven of Brass (Desert).

And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Deuteronomy


The Earth and the heavens is the treasury of the Lord.
So Earthly gold and silver is just Iron. Because the Earth is Iron and the heaven above is Brass.

Iron rusts.

Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. James


Jesus was trying to teach the heavenly symbols of the treasury.

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:


It is the Earth and the Heavens that is the treasury.

South - North - West - East
Iron - Brass - Silver - Gold
Earth - Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

And each of the four groups has another three groups within it. A total of twelve groups of symbols.
Groups from a single direction share common symbols`.

Like the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard is with the kid goat, and the lion eats straw with the Ox

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble

But each of those animals are also assigned to certain tribe of Israel symbol as its position within the twelve.


Like Joseph as sheep:
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.

Benjamin as wolf:
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis


Both in the East:

And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.


So the wolf is with the lamb in a three group and also in the twelve group as Benjamin is with Joseph.
Both ways still fit together.


I could show some more layer sets of three.

Red - Purple - Blue

And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses. Exodus.

Added to the treasure layer

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue.

Listen to this:

Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

One symbol from each layer was left out. It didnt say Brass and Red.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Is there a little book or someone who has written down all of these threes?

Not that I'm aware of.

This is another layer of three symbols:

Corn - Oil - Wine

And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. Hosea.


The Corn (Grain) is used for making bread. Oil is made from the Olive tree, and Wine is made from the Grape.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh -
Bone - Blood

The bread is the flesh, and the wine is the blood.

Oil is the bones.

As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones. Psalm.

As sword is bones.

As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? Psalm.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Isn't there every possibility/probability that (anonymous) John had been doctored by the Hellenist Paulines since the time Hellenist Paul heard (might be a devilish) voice posing as Jesus , while Hellenist Paul never was in the company of Jesus to recognize this voice, please? Right?
no = wrong.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Isn't there every possibility/probability that (anonymous) John had been doctored by the Hellenist Paulines since the time Hellenist Paul heard (might be a devilish) voice posing as Jesus , while Hellenist Paul never was in the company of Jesus to recognize this voice, please? Right?
no = wrong.
If innocent Jesus could be tempted by devil for forty days, why can't sinful Hellenist Paul be tempted by the Devil, please? Right?

Regards
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Isn't there every possibility/probability that (anonymous) John had been doctored by the Hellenist Paulines since the time Hellenist Paul heard (might be a devilish) voice posing as Jesus , while Hellenist Paul never was in the company of Jesus to recognize this voice, please? Right?


Regards

No = wrong. He checked with the disciples in Jerusalem and he was told he heard the right voice and was given the right hand of fellowship

paarsurrey said:


If innocent Jesus could be tempted by devil for forty days, why can't sinful Hellenist Paul be tempted by the Devil, please? Right?

Regards

Paul probably was tempted until he met Jesus at the road to Damascus.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
it sounds like the odds are pretty high that the Eucharistic tradition was already a thing before the Gospel of John was written.

It is the Holy Communion or the Lord's Supper. It is a commemoration of Jesus' Last Supper with his disciples. That is when it started.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you...” (John 6:53–58).

This is symbolic language and the commemoration (the Holy Communion) is not open to all - it is for believers only because they are the only ones that understand it and believe it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It is the Holy Communion or the Lord's Supper. It is a commemoration of Jesus' Last Supper with his disciples. That is when it started.

... you assume. Why?

Is it just because of a general trust in the Bible, or do you have specific extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus instituted the practice of Eucharist/Holy Communion/a shared ritual meal?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you...” (John 6:53–58).

This is symbolic language and the commemoration (the Holy Communion) is not open to all - it is for believers only because they are the only ones that understand it and believe it.
And those words weren't put to paper until after the early Christians were engaging in the practice. Do you agree?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is recorded as speaking;

"I am the living Bread which came down from Heaven. If any man eat of this Bread, he shall live for ever; and the Bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

What did Jesus mean?
I wonder if Jesus meant bread as nurishment to wisdom. That for those who "eat" from his wisdom will reach God.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I wonder if Jesus meant bread as nurishment to wisdom. That for those who "eat" from his wisdom will reach God.
Here' s Abdul Baha's interpretation of it...
This evening I wish to speak to you concerning the mystery of sacrifice. There are two kinds of sacrifice: the physical and the spiritual. The explanation made by the churches concerning this subject is, in reality, superstition. For instance, it is recorded in the Gospel that Christ said, “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever.” He also said, “This [wine] is my blood … which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” These verses have been interpreted by the churches in such a superstitious way that it is impossible for human reason to understand or accept the explanation.​
Then later he says...
He said, “I am the living bread which came down from heaven.” It was not the body of Christ which came from heaven. His body came from the womb of Mary, but the Christly perfections descended from heaven; the reality of Christ came down from heaven. The Spirit of Christ and not the body descended from heaven. The body of Christ was but human. There could be no question that the physical body was born from the womb of Mary. But the reality of Christ, the Spirit of Christ, the perfections of Christ all came from heaven. Consequently, by saying He was the bread which came from heaven He meant that the perfections which He showed forth were divine perfections, that the blessings within Him were heavenly gifts and bestowals, that His light was the light of Reality. He said, “If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever.” That is to say, whosoever assimilates these divine perfections which are within me will never die; whosoever has a share and partakes of these heavenly bounties 451 I embody will find eternal life; he who takes unto himself these divine lights shall find everlasting life. How manifest the meaning is! How evident! For the soul which acquires divine perfections and seeks heavenly illumination from the teachings of Christ will undoubtedly live eternally. This is also one of the mysteries of sacrifice.​
 

Five Solas

Active Member
I wonder if Jesus meant bread as nurishment to wisdom. That for those who "eat" from his wisdom will reach God.
Hi,

The Bible is actually very clear on this topic. It says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is recorded as speaking;

"I am the living Bread which came down from Heaven. If any man eat of this Bread, he shall live for ever; and the Bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

What did Jesus mean?

Bread is a type of processed food that is common to all cultures. It symbolizes civilization. Making bread is a way to convert many natural ingredients into something manmade, which preserves the natural ingredients and was also good food for the body. It was one of the keys to civilization. Civilization, in turn, created a detour for human evolution.

Bread is not a natural product of the earth, but is manufactured by humans. Its simple beginnings, began as a creative impulse from the operating system of the brain. Like the invention of writing, it was considered divine, since such creativity was not the product of instinct or will power, but to higher creative powers, that were semi-conscious and can appear, independently, all over the earth; spirit of the divine. These impulses come from our collective human nature that is independent of culture; all over the world.

The body of Christ, as living bread, was an extension of this collective human creative tradition. The bread that we eat, nourishes the body but is discarded as waste. This new type of living bread, was also divinely collective; creative source. It was given to feed the spirit and soul of man, which goes on forever. In that respect, the body of Christ is connected to nurturing long term conscious behavior that would become part of our human genetic makeup, through collective persistence and evolutionary selection.

This living bread appears to be connected to continuing updates in the operating system of the human brain. Christianity, from that day on, would play a large roll in Western Civilization, that still continues today. It sort of defined the parameters of western conscious selection, based less on the body type; all cultures were included, but more on a common mental and spiritual attitude; faith which was geared to the brain; frontal lobe and limbic system; feelings. It is not stagnant, but was a living system of belief designed for neural growth and change.

In the science sense, living forever, sort of occurs via our DNA and the selection process. We still have genes from the dinosaurs. They live on through our human DNA. Once man gained control over the earth via civilization; bread, the natural environment for selection and change fro human was modified by creativity and impact of humans. Even war would eliminate genes for selection.

The living bread pushed the selection process for behavior; neural changes, into new directions, which also included the divine; living bread. These changes in the operating system of the human brain continue to evolve and make each generation start with an evolving platform. The children of today take to technology like ducks to water, since this platform has risen to meet the occasion. But in the same token the adults are designing the Tech, to meet the need of all, thereby meeting the rising platform half way.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
Bread is a type of processed food that is common to all cultures. It symbolizes civilization. Making bread is a way to convert many natural ingredients into something manmade, which preserves the natural ingredients and was also good food for the body. It was one of the keys to civilization. Civilization, in turn, created a detour for human evolution.

Bread is not a natural product of the earth, but is manufactured by humans. Its simple beginnings, began as a creative impulse from the operating system of the brain. Like the invention of writing, it was considered divine, since such creativity was not the product of instinct or will power, but to higher creative powers, that were semi-conscious and can appear, independently, all over the earth; spirit of the divine. These impulses come from our collective human nature that is independent of culture; all over the world.

The body of Christ, as living bread, was an extension of this collective human creative tradition. The bread that we eat, nourishes the body but is discarded as waste. This new type of living bread, was also divinely collective; creative source. It was given to feed the spirit and soul of man, which goes on forever. In that respect, the body of Christ is connected to nurturing long term conscious behavior that would become part of our human genetic makeup, through collective persistence and evolutionary selection.

This living bread appears to be connected to continuing updates in the operating system of the human brain. Christianity, from that day on, would play a large roll in Western Civilization, that still continues today. It sort of defined the parameters of western conscious selection, based less on the body type; all cultures were included, but more on a common mental and spiritual attitude; faith which was geared to the brain; frontal lobe and limbic system; feelings. It is not stagnant, but was a living system of belief designed for neural growth and change.

In the science sense, living forever, sort of occurs via our DNA and the selection process. We still have genes from the dinosaurs. They live on through our human DNA. Once man gained control over the earth via civilization; bread, the natural environment for selection and change fro human was modified by creativity and impact of humans. Even war would eliminate genes for selection.

The living bread pushed the selection process for behavior; neural changes, into new directions, which also included the divine; living bread. These changes in the operating system of the human brain continue to evolve and make each generation start with an evolving platform. The children of today take to technology like ducks to water, since this platform has risen to meet the occasion. But in the same token the adults are designing the Tech, to meet the need of all, thereby meeting the rising platform half way.
Hi,
In my book, this qualifies as eisegesis....
 
Top