I and the father are one.

[Soapy]

Yes, God became man. It was the only legal way for God to redeem man since God gave the world and dominion over it to man.

The thief entered illegally, but God entered legally. He is the Good Shepherd (Psalm 23) even as Jesus is the Good Shepherd.

Are you amazed that God's wisdom and understanding is higher than our wisdom? And His ways higher than our ways?




Is your spirit in your body? But it isn't your body?



Not "The word of God" but "The word WITH God and WAS God"

There’s always a point of delusion that must not be crossed - and you have reached it.

 

[Kenny]

That’s because it isn’t ‘HIM’… it is HIS word.

Makes absolutely no sense. You are changing what you said. You can't separate the two.

 

[Kenny]

There’s always a point of delusion that must not be crossed - and you have reached it.

And yet I haven't violated any scripture like you did

 

[Soapy]

Makes absolutely no sense. You are changing what you said. You can't separate the two.

The word of God is not YHWH. The word of God is what YHWH spoke.

I am not separating YHWH from His word. It is you trying to claim that the word of God is another individual person in God.

MY WORD …. Is what I say and what I act on - it is not another person in me!

Jesus being ‘the word of God’ is a title that shows that he, Jesus, is doing what God commanded him to do. This is different from ‘the word of God’ itself.

The second is the command. The first is the ACTOR through whom the commanded is enacted.

But John 1:1 does not say that Jesus is the word of God. That title comes much later in a verse in Revelation where the title is seen written on his thigh as he rides a on horse in the great battle. The title means that he is the commander of everything that God commanded to be done…. He is the culmination of the sayings of God regarding the SALVATION OF MANKIND.:

• “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.” (Rev 19:11)

Jesus is called by another title: ‘Faithful and True’. Who is he being ‘Faithful and True’ to?

Well, it’s to ‘Almighty God’, the speaker of the word. And Jesus is the actor doing exactly what God spoke: ‘carrying out the word God spoke’.

You will notice (!!) that Jesus is not called ‘God’. He is called only ‘the word of God’. An emissary who speaks and does what his king teaches him to say and do IS THE WORD OF THE KING.

And you will see (!!) that this does not apply to John 1:1 since the creation of the world is a single continuous event. And Jesus says that he can do nothing except what he first sees his Father doing. God did not show Jesus how to create the world and all within - then destroy it and let Jesus create it all by himself! In other words, John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus being called ‘Word of God’.

 

[Soapy]

And yet I haven't violated any scripture like you did

You have not violated any scriptures. It is the trinitarian belief that you subscribe to that violated the scriptures.

It is the violation of the scriptures that leads wannabes ‘Christians’ into believing the delusion and the deception:

• “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” (2 Thes 2:11)

 

[muhammad_isa]

• “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.” (Rev 19:11)

Jesus is called by another title: ‘Faithful and True’. Who is he being ‘Faithful and True’ to?

Well, it’s to ‘Almighty God’, the speaker of the word. And Jesus is the actor doing exactly what God spoke: ‘carrying out the word God spoke’.

That is correct.
..and notice that the Gospel of John starts of with philosophical discourse, and is not claimed to be words spoken by Jesus.
It is the understanding of its author, who claims to have "a witness" who is not even named.

 

[Kenny]

The word of God is not YHWH. The word of God is what YHWH spoke.

I am not separating YHWH from His word. It is you trying to claim that the word of God is another individual person in God.

MY WORD …. Is what I say and what I act on - it is not another person in me!

Jesus being ‘the word of God’ is a title that shows that he, Jesus, is doing what God commanded him to do. This is different from ‘the word of God’ itself.

The second is the command. The first is the ACTOR through whom the commanded is enacted.

But John 1:1 does not say that Jesus is the word of God. That title comes much later in a verse in Revelation where the title is seen written on his thigh as he rides a on horse in the great battle. The title means that he is the commander of everything that God commanded to be done…. He is the culmination of the sayings of God regarding the SALVATION OF MANKIND.:

• “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.” (Rev 19:11)

Jesus is called by another title: ‘Faithful and True’. Who is he being ‘Faithful and True’ to?

Well, it’s to ‘Almighty God’, the speaker of the word. And Jesus is the actor doing exactly what God spoke: ‘carrying out the word God spoke’.

You will notice (!!) that Jesus is not called ‘God’. He is called only ‘the word of God’. An emissary who speaks and does what his king teaches him to say and do IS THE WORD OF THE KING.

And you will see (!!) that this does not apply to John 1:1 since the creation of the world is a single continuous event. And Jesus says that he can do nothing except what he first sees his Father doing. God did not show Jesus how to create the world and all within - then destroy it and let Jesus create it all by himself! In other words, John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus being called ‘Word of God’.

Titles are who you are. The Word WAS God and it does apply to Jesus. Not a title - a statement. Thomas called him God and Jesus didn't correct him. People worshipped Jesus and Jesus didn't stop them. Angels stop people from worshipping them because you don't worship angels.

Sorry, you are going nowhere on this with me. Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us! As a man He had to obey the Father (He is our model) - But when He received the Glory that He once had and shared with the Father upon the resurrection, He is now both God and legal King of all the dominions on the earth.

He is the Alpha and Omega, He is Righteous, He is the Eternal One, He is Creator, He is... God.

 

[Kenny]

You have not violated any scriptures. It is the trinitarian belief that you subscribe to that violated the scriptures.

It is the violation of the scriptures that leads wannabes ‘Christians’ into believing the delusion and the deception:

• “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” (2 Thes 2:11)

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Mark 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

Regardless, I know Jesus is your Lord and you are part of the Body of Jesus Christ.

May the Shalom of God be with you.

 

[Soapy]

Titles are who you are. The Word WAS God and it does apply to Jesus. Not a title - a statement. Thomas called him God and Jesus didn't correct him. People worshipped Jesus and Jesus didn't stop them. Angels stop people from worshipping them because you don't worship angels.

Sorry, you are going nowhere on this with me. Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us! As a man He had to obey the Father (He is our model) - But when He received the Glory that He once had and shared with the Father upon the resurrection, He is now both God and legal King of all the dominions on the earth.

He is the Alpha and Omega, He is Righteous, He is the Eternal One, He is Creator, He is... God.

You sound desperate like the you are saying, ‘Please believe me, please!’

Well, you yourself know you are wrong. You just cannot admit to yourself.

For instance, you say that Jesus ditched bring God yet was still God after ditching being God!!
But also, what was Jesus after he ditched being ‘GOD’, as you say?

Yet scriptures says that it was GOD that made him Lord and Christ … Well, who is God, then? Did Jesus make himself to be both Lord and Christ? (Acts 2:36)

And what does ‘Christ’ mean?

And when did God make Jesus to be ‘Christ’?

All in all you have TWO GODS. One who is immutable, almighty, and eternally Spirit; and one who is MUTABLE, limited in his own power, and a man - Spirit encased in flesh!

 

[Soapy]

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Mark 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

Regardless, I know Jesus is your Lord and you are part of the Body of Jesus Christ.

May the Shalom of God be with you.

That is hypocritical. Deceptive words wrapped in apparent truths: the best lies are 95% truth… I am aware!

 

[Soapy]

That is hypocritical. Deceptive words wrapped in apparent truths: the best lies are 95% truth… I am aware!

That is correct.
..and notice that the Gospel of John starts of with philosophical discourse, and is not claimed to be words spoken by Jesus.
It is the understanding of its author, who claims to have "a witness" who is not even named.

Yes, you are right. The first mention of Jesus is:

• “In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.” (John 1:4)

Ignore the ‘Him’. It’s trinitarian for ‘It’ in this instance; the Holy Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is LIFE and it is the ‘LIGHT’ that is Jesus.

• “The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:5)

Jesus ‘shines’ in the dark: his righteousness shines like a light in the darkness of sinfulness. And sinfulness could not overcome his righteousness.

• “There was a man sent from God whose name was John.” (John 1:6)

John was sent from God…. Jesus (trinity God!) did not know John / John did not know Jesus (Trinity God!!) …. even though they were cousins!!! Figure that!!!:

• “This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” (John 1:30-31)

• “He [John] came as a witness to testify concerning that light [Jesus] , so that through him all might believe. He [John] himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light [Jesus].” (John 1:7-8)

John came to testify about Jesus (the LIGHT).

• “The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.” (John 1:9)

The truth that Jesus brings into the world is the only truth that can give life to mankind. It is the truth about almighty God through the spirit of God that gives life eternal to mankind.

• “He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.” (John 1:10)

The ‘Him’ is the LIGHT’. The LIGHT is TRUTH… ‘Though the LIGHT was in the world the world did not recognise it!’

Jesus is the LIGHT in the world - but the world did not recognise (IT) the LIGHT.

• “He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.” (John 1:11)

The Jews were the people of God: The LIGHT came to the Jews - But the Jews did not receive the LIGHT. They rejected the LIGHT that was shown to them.

• “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.” (John 1:12-13)

But to all who did receive the LIGHT it gave them the right to become children of God. Being ‘Born of God’ is the ADOPTION … Believing in the LIGHT of God is the REBIRTH required to become a child of God.

• “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)

John came from God….
The Son came from the Father…
Hmmm…!!!

By the way, being SENT INTO THE WORLD means:

• ‘Facing adversity and sinfulness: WICKEDNESS’

Neither John nor Jesus faced sinfulness or adversity (WICKEDNESS) until AFTER they started preaching! This is when they ‘entered the world’! It has nothing to do with being born nor coming from ‘Heaven’ (which, by the way, is added text to the scriptures. The unedited text does not say Jesus came ‘From Heaven’. Even the very badly edited verse of

• ‘no one has gone up to heaven who did not first descend from heaven’

is so badly wrong. It is actually:

• ‘no one has gone up to heaven who did not first descend [to the grave / Died]’

You can see the truth when you consider that EVEN Jesus Christ did not ascend to Heaven UNTIL AFTER he had DIED (descended to the grave!)

 

[Kenny]

You sound desperate like the you are saying, ‘Please believe me, please!’

Well, you yourself know you are wrong. You just cannot admit to yourself.

LOL - Well, if that makes you happy... feel free to believe it.

For instance, you say that Jesus ditched bring God yet was still God after ditching being God!!
But also, what was Jesus after he ditched being ‘GOD’, as you say?

Yet scriptures says that it was GOD that made him Lord and Christ … Well, who is God, then? Did Jesus make himself to be both Lord and Christ? (Acts 2:36)

So, you are telling me that God has to conform to your wisdom and capacity.

Once again, the problem you are presenting is the parenthetical moment of when The Word before and when He became flesh. Only God can raise Christ from the dead...

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raiseit up.

Only God is the living bread... Jesus said "I am the bread of Life". Only God is eternal life but John said Jesus is eternal life.

And what does ‘Christ’ mean?

And when did God make Jesus to be ‘Christ’?

All in all you have TWO GODS. One who is immutable, almighty, and eternally Spirit; and one who is MUTABLE, limited in his own power, and a man - Spirit encased in flesh!

The anointed one with the anointing.


8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - speaks of Jesus

 

[Kenny]

That is hypocritical.!

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.


I am secure in who I am

 

[Soapy]

LOL - Well, if that makes you happy... feel free to believe it.



So, you are telling me that God has to conform to your wisdom and capacity.

Once again, the problem you are presenting is the parenthetical moment of when The Word before and when He became flesh. Only God can raise Christ from the dead...

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raiseit up.

Only God is the living bread... Jesus said "I am the bread of Life". Only God is eternal life but John said Jesus is eternal life.



The anointed one with the anointing.


8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - speaks of Jesus

You aren’t very good at answering the questions that you are asked, are you?

Seeing that the true answer would destroy your belief, it is no wonder you don’t reply with relevance to the question asked to you.

In fact, even while trying to evade the true answer you provide corruption of your own belief:

• You said: “Once again, the problem you are presenting is the parenthetical moment of when The Word before and when He became flesh. Only God can raise Christ from the dead...”

Well, a few things:

1. God is immutable. How did ‘God’ become ‘Man’ if God is immutable?
2. If it is your Jesus-God alone that became man then surely he is different to the other two ‘God(s) that REMAIN ETERNALLY UNCHANGED?
3. When your Jesus-God became man, is he then GREATER than the other two God(s) seeing that hd has TWO SPIRITS and TWO PERSONALITIES and TWO WILLS… where’s as the other two God(s) only have ONE? Or, is he LESS THAN the other two since he is now SUBJECT TO SINNING in his man-self?

And:

• You SAY GOD raised Jesus from the dead… and you say Jesus IS GOD! But ‘GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD’. And scriptures says it was the FATHER who raised Jesus from the dead (John 5:21; Acts 2:24 & 13:30; Romans 6:10-11 & 8:11)

Hmmm…. Seems it’s a different book of scriptures that you are reading since it is clear from the Christian scriptures what things took place and by whom they were accomplished.

 

[Soapy]

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.


I am secure in who I am

There is nothing wrong with judging. It is a requirement of humanity to judge what we do and judge what others do in order to live in a sociable society.

What the Bible makes clear is that JUDGING TO CONDEMNATION is wrong! This means that we should not make desperate decisions about the actions of another just to satisfy a whim that we might have. We cannot know the heart (mind) of a person and there might be a good reason why a seemingly wrong act was carried out. It’s like I read today about sexism towards males wherein a man tried to help a little girl who was lost. No one (female) took any notice of her situation so a man took her to the police station. But on the way women saw him with the child (of a different race) and presumed the worst … (Hmmm… ‘Good Samaritan’ springs to mind: Where are you taking my brother Jew? He was attacked by robbers - look at the state of him? But you are not one of us - you’re a hated Samaritan!!! Get away from him…….!!!)

 

[Muffled]

No! What is happening is that Satan is seeing that you are reading the truth and is distracting you with nonesense.

I know what I’m writing and what I believe and there is nothing in what I say or believe that makes God two… My whole ethos is about God being ONE… the Father, and the Father alone.

God, he SENDS HIS SPIRIT todo his Will often through an agency. In time to come you will see Surgeons sending ‘Bots’ into a body to carry out operations. The ‘Bot’ is carrying out the Will of the Surgeon. In other words, the Spirit of the surgeon is in the ‘Bot’!!

We can already see motor cars transporting people autonomously by the Will of its maker. The passenger(s) requests (A Request is a ‘Prayer’ - look it up!!) it take them to their desired destination but the vehicle operates in the manner it was designed by its maker. If the passenger tries to make the vehicle do something it should not do (deliberately crash or take an unviable route) the vehicle will say: ‘Sorry, I am designed to deliver you safely from your source pointing to your destination - safely and timely. I cannot do something - it’s against the Will of my maker - to do something that is harmful or incorrect!’.

In other words, the spirit of God (through whatever media) will only carry out the Will of God. Now, it is a crude but still valid sentence that says, ‘God carried out the act’ and ‘His Spirit carried out the act’. That does not mean that there are TWO PERSONS!!!

If a manager sends an order to stop production (or whatever you like!) and sends that order (THE SPIRIT OF HIM!!) via a Supervising floor manager to the staff. Is the order from TWO PERSONS?

No! It is the SPIRIT OF THE MANAGER working through the supervisor!!

I believe that kind of statement comes straight from Satan. I know God personally and have absolute personal proof.

I believe those are two very different meanings of Spirit and spirit. You are confusing them as though they were one.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I agree. If the Bible was trying to say that Jesus was equal to God, then it would have called them brothers.
It doesn’t.

I believe I would like to hear your reasoning on that null hypothesis. Why should they be called brothers? I see no reason to do so.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I believe I would like to hear your reasoning on that null hypothesis. Why should they be called brothers? I see no reason to do so.

Isn’t it self-explanatory? When you read about a familial relationship of “brothers,” it comes across that they’re equals.

Not so when reading about a father and son relationship. In fact, you immediately get the sense of which one has more authority, that the son is younger, ie., had a “beginning” , that he listens to his father. And the Scriptures present their relationship in exactly those ways. 1 Corinthians 15:27; Revelation 3:14; John 6:38; etc., etc.

Really though, by calling my statement…

… that null hypothesis.

…that tells me - and everyone reading it - you are not open-minded on this subject.

Did not Jesus call His Father, “the only true God”? - John 17:3; see John 4:24
Then why don’t you believe it?
By putting Jesus on par with His Father Jehovah, I believe you are breaking the First Commandment. —Exodus 20:3

 

[Muffled]

Isn’t it self-explanatory? When you read about a familial relationship of “brothers,” it comes across that they’re equals.

Not so when reading about a father and son relationship. In fact, you immediately get the sense of which one has more authority, that the son is younger, ie., had a “beginning” , that he listens to his father. And the Scriptures present their relationship in exactly those ways. 1 Corinthians 15:27; Revelation 3:14; John 6:38; etc., etc.

Really though, by calling my statement…
…that tells me - and everyone reading it - you are not open-minded on this subject.

Did not Jesus call His Father, “the only true God”? - John 17:3; see John 4:24
Then why don’t you believe it?
By putting Jesus on par with His Father Jehovah, I believe you are breaking the First Commandment. —Exodus 20:3

I believe I have three brothers. I am not equal t two of them in the subject of Biology and one of them in art, and they are not equal to me in computer programming.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

I believe that is irrelevant sine God in Jesus is eternal.

Are you saying you don't know what the null hypothesis is?

I do believe it. God will always be His God.

I believe that is not true but it could be true for you if you have such a poor image of God that you have created in your imagination.

 

[Soapy]

I believe I have three brothers. I am not equal t two of them in the subject of Biology and one of them in art, and they are not equal to me in computer programming.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

I believe that is irrelevant sine God in Jesus is eternal.

Are you saying you don't know what the null hypothesis is?

I do believe it. God will always be His God.

I believe that is not true but it could be true for you if you have such a poor image of God that you have created in your imagination.

Green text is not good for people with physical eyesight problems.