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I and the father are one.

dybmh

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Link said:
If you have a point then make it.
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It's ambiguous whether the Kingdom of God, which is promised in the Gospels, is good or bad. It depends on whose God is being referenced. I propose that it's not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because that God is referred to only as YHVH forever in all generations. Ref Exodus 3:15

And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.​
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
dybmh said:
It's ambiguous whether the Kingdom of God, which is promised in the Gospels, is good or bad. It depends on whose God is being referenced. I propose that it's not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because that God is referred to only as YHVH forever in all generations. Ref Exodus 3:15

And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.​
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It's not ambiguous and Jesus and Moses God is one and the same, as Moses and Elijah both appeared to disciples and testified to Jesus, and they appeared to a bunch of people before that.
 
dybmh

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Link said:
It's not ambiguous
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Can you cite scripture which details the Kingdom of God. If I recall, all there is in the Gospel is a parable about mustard seed. The prarable could be interpretted both positively and negatively. It's ambiguous.
Link said:
Jesus and Moses God is one and the same,
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Not according to the book of John. Maybe it's in other scripture? You're welcome to prove me wrong.
Link said:
Moses and Elijah both appeared to disciples and testified to Jesus, and they appeared to a bunch of people before that.
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Scripture please?
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three sheltersa—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.b Listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown in terror.
 
dybmh

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Link said:
Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three sheltersa—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.b Listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown in terror.
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Right, the book of Matthew, not in the book of John.
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Gospels corrects the OT. Christians think it compliments the OT, but that's not true, it contradicts it, Jesus (a) is in exalting himself is talking about all exalted ones and sons of God. Christians get confused because of how much OT trash talks some of the exalted ones and chosen anointed kings from God.

Ahlulbayt (a) of course, express everything found in the Gospels of John about themselves.

The Quran says to believe in the book revealed before Quran, which is the Gospels. The Gospels are over all light. with some corruptions. As for the Torah and books after - a lot of it has been corrupted but it essentially has themes of contradiction. It emphasizes and contradicts it's emphasis at the same time, making it ultra confusing.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Link said:
The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91
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Well written.

Regards
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe that is both a false interpretation of the Bible and a false interpretation of the Qu'ran. The Jews were correct; He was claiming to be God.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
TransmutingSoul said:
I see figurative verses are common in the Bible and the Quran.

I would also add that Baha'u'llah has also explained this topic in great detail. The Kitab-i-iqan is a very comprehensive explanation on this topic.

Regards Tony
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I believe it is only marginally helpful to hear what a philosopher thinks and he is wrong as often as he is right.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Muffled said:
I believe it is only marginally helpful to hear what a philosopher thinks and he is wrong as often as he is right.
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That is indeed a good thing to know about one's own self.

Yet a Messeger of God is the Truth and that is indeed a good thing to know about Baha'u'llah, as that is the gift of a God given Faith.

Regards Tony
 
M

Mark La Buda

Member
The oneness to which Jesus referred must be understood in harmony with the context of his statement. He was speaking of his works and his care of the “sheep” who would follow him. (John 10:25, 26, 37, 38; compare John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38-40; 8:16-18.) As regards his “sheep,” he and his Father were likewise at unity in their protecting such sheeplike ones and leading them to everlasting life. (John 10:27-29; compare Ezekiel 34:23, 24.) Jesus’ prayer on behalf of the unity of all his disciples, including future ones, shows that the oneness, or union, between Jesus and his Father was not as to identity of person but as to purpose and action. In this way Jesus’ disciples could “all be one,” just as he and his Father are one. (John 17:20-23) Compare Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5, 6; John 17:15-26.

Jesus and his Father, are also “one” in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing,” Jesus explained. “For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”-John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.

This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: “Let, not my will, but yours take place.” These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father’s. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?-Matthew 24:36.
 
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