Sheldon
Veteran Member
Ok, well that's one mystery solved anyway.
So ultimate question are just appeals to mystery with inherent assumptions built in. The title seems a little grandiose tbh.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
I Believe ...
- Thread starter PureX
- Start date
So ultimate question are just appeals to mystery with inherent assumptions built in. The title seems a little grandiose tbh.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Well the question of course assumes there is an overarching reason. Why are all the other great apes here? Is that an ultimate question?
Excatly, and why would an "advanced" and "enlightened" being need to wonder about this at all? We critical thinkers know exactly what this question means when asked by some theists. They are looking for agreement and validation for their religious tradition that says humans are special, and God's children, etc.
Or it can even be less specific looking for a need for a creator, and this would be a juping off stage for theists to assume their specific religious tradition is a result of the same creator. They aren't following facts and experts in cosmology and physics, they are making all sorts of religious suggestions, just looking for some agreement. Look at how some say how impossible it is that anything exists, or that life came about on its own, or some sort of odds that lead to an assumption of a magic being a cause. But then when we ask them to calcculate the odds of a God existing and they have no math.
I feel for them. I went through a period where i was searching for an final truth and ultimate answers. What I found was hos futile this dead end was. I actually stopved and asked myself why i needed to find a final answer. I was so absorbed in looking for an answer that it created an expectation that it's out there. At some point i realized many folks claimed to have the answers, but they didn't seem all that impressive to me, and conflicted with the next guy's claims of truth. So I eventually realized I needed to adjust my mind, and not seek some truth in words. It's K to to have questions and admit you don't an answer, and then move on with life. The irony is that moving on passed what the ego wants and needs IS a pertty good truth, as it allows a great deal more freedom than any ideology.
I have a book by that name and I suspect it is the written transcript of the video you cite. I raed it years ago when it came out. It was much like any discussions and debates we have. Closer to truth? Sure, more knowledge gets us closer. Did the religious folk get us closer? No, they repeated the tradtional claims and made the tradictional assumptions that gods exist. Does that get us closer to truth? Not what I can see. I don't think humans need religion to thrive as a species. Religious ideas don't really inform us about any sort of truth, and if anything it distracts from science that can show its work. Religion and religious ideology continues to be a liability for the future as more conservative believers take control and influence societies.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I'm not defending the world's current religions. My religious perspective is independent from all that. I see religion and religious questions as a part of human nature for many people. I wouldn't be surprised if religion evolved past mythology, and rigid doctrines into something new. SBNR is growing. I think we'll have new religions as well.
My morality is left liberal. I hold on to very few traditions.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Science says it's human work proof is the machine.
You lie.
Natural humans first innate mutual equal dominion life owner is self proof first in any law on earth.
In nature. Humans said so. Acute wisdom about mineral health plant food remedy.
Natural human. First human law natural life.
Is not any thesis.
Human men wanting to practice science inferred the planet description as reactive hence mechanical.
Studied it.
Yet that planet is mass formed in infinity space. As did it's heavens.
Positions in natural law you don't own.
You taught I walk upon the rock of creation.
I am kept safe by holy water above me and below me.
As you knew earth had been sun attacked as it's heavens was burning only on the side facing the sun.
So you said the seas mass of water proved earth attacked by the sun had flooded sealed the earth stone. Stone rock had water inside it too.
What you were aware of as men.
So you said it was proven when earths rock was struck water came out of it. As the proof a flood had saved earths mass.
Pretty basic reason why science stated water was a holy body and respect it.
Living exactly in fresh and not salted water with water dust minerals existing historic created already as a dust. No human even present in that theme the mineral dust in water.
So we don't own a humans thesis I pretend to know why life exists. It's man's group control ego behaviour.
Very dangerous history. As it put men as a group into life's dictatorship roles of liars.
Family owned hierarchial role play in life of natural orders and mutual comparable working support conditions. Natural role play mutual in natural life.
Which man's group father takeover by his sons is in his owned memories. His owned wrongdoing.
How the son man adult usurped his human father as a power play. The actual real conscious first human thought upon. Just a Memory about inheritor man being more powerful than his creator man father.
How you relate that memory with science advice today as just a human proves you are possessed as a scientific Theist in theisms. Misquoting rational use of a human mind.
As theism never existed until it was chosen to be human practiced.
One of the most dangerous cons of the human man group.
You lie.
Natural humans first innate mutual equal dominion life owner is self proof first in any law on earth.
In nature. Humans said so. Acute wisdom about mineral health plant food remedy.
Natural human. First human law natural life.
Is not any thesis.
Human men wanting to practice science inferred the planet description as reactive hence mechanical.
Studied it.
Yet that planet is mass formed in infinity space. As did it's heavens.
Positions in natural law you don't own.
You taught I walk upon the rock of creation.
I am kept safe by holy water above me and below me.
As you knew earth had been sun attacked as it's heavens was burning only on the side facing the sun.
So you said the seas mass of water proved earth attacked by the sun had flooded sealed the earth stone. Stone rock had water inside it too.
What you were aware of as men.
So you said it was proven when earths rock was struck water came out of it. As the proof a flood had saved earths mass.
Pretty basic reason why science stated water was a holy body and respect it.
Living exactly in fresh and not salted water with water dust minerals existing historic created already as a dust. No human even present in that theme the mineral dust in water.
So we don't own a humans thesis I pretend to know why life exists. It's man's group control ego behaviour.
Very dangerous history. As it put men as a group into life's dictatorship roles of liars.
Family owned hierarchial role play in life of natural orders and mutual comparable working support conditions. Natural role play mutual in natural life.
Which man's group father takeover by his sons is in his owned memories. His owned wrongdoing.
How the son man adult usurped his human father as a power play. The actual real conscious first human thought upon. Just a Memory about inheritor man being more powerful than his creator man father.
How you relate that memory with science advice today as just a human proves you are possessed as a scientific Theist in theisms. Misquoting rational use of a human mind.
As theism never existed until it was chosen to be human practiced.
One of the most dangerous cons of the human man group.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
PureX said: ↑
If I assert to myself, or to you, that "I believe (in) "X"", I am basically asserting that I am choosing to no longer be skeptical or doubtful or undecided about the validity of "X" as a true assessment of reality. That's what it means to believe: not that "X" is true, but that I am choosing to hold it as true, and I am asserting that choice to myself and/or to you.
But why would I do such a thing? What am I gaining from making this choice? What does anyone else gain from my making this choice, and/or asserting that I have done so? These questions puzzle me because I can't give myself a reasonable answer. I mean I guess I would gain some peace or mind, in that I no longer have to carry any burden of doubt around about the validity of "X" as a proposed truth. And having dropped my skepticism I would no longer have to look out for and measure any possible evidence to the contrary. But these results do not sound like advantages, to me. In fact, they sound rather like examples of willful ignorance. Like ways of setting myself up for error and misjudgment. They sound like an authorization of personal bias.
We are constantly discussing and debating people's "beliefs" around here. It's nearly all anyone seems to be concerned about. And yet I'm having trouble seeing why any of us should be "believing in" anything! What are any of you gaining from it that is not ultimately just a biased and willful ignorance of the possibility that you could always be wrong? And I'm not asking to be insulting. I'm asking because I genuinely don't see any good reason to "believe in" things. To forfeit doubt, and skepticism, and just presume that we got this proposition right ... no questions asked.
Click to expand...
(Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah had a reason oriented Religion like Moses, and he had no blindfaith/religion, please, right?
Didn't he, please? Right?
If yes, then, why don't " Christians" follow Yeshua, please?
Regards
If I assert to myself, or to you, that "I believe (in) "X"", I am basically asserting that I am choosing to no longer be skeptical or doubtful or undecided about the validity of "X" as a true assessment of reality. That's what it means to believe: not that "X" is true, but that I am choosing to hold it as true, and I am asserting that choice to myself and/or to you.
But why would I do such a thing? What am I gaining from making this choice? What does anyone else gain from my making this choice, and/or asserting that I have done so? These questions puzzle me because I can't give myself a reasonable answer. I mean I guess I would gain some peace or mind, in that I no longer have to carry any burden of doubt around about the validity of "X" as a proposed truth. And having dropped my skepticism I would no longer have to look out for and measure any possible evidence to the contrary. But these results do not sound like advantages, to me. In fact, they sound rather like examples of willful ignorance. Like ways of setting myself up for error and misjudgment. They sound like an authorization of personal bias.
We are constantly discussing and debating people's "beliefs" around here. It's nearly all anyone seems to be concerned about. And yet I'm having trouble seeing why any of us should be "believing in" anything! What are any of you gaining from it that is not ultimately just a biased and willful ignorance of the possibility that you could always be wrong? And I'm not asking to be insulting. I'm asking because I genuinely don't see any good reason to "believe in" things. To forfeit doubt, and skepticism, and just presume that we got this proposition right ... no questions asked.
Click to expand...
(Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah had a reason oriented Religion like Moses, and he had no blindfaith/religion, please, right?
Didn't he, please? Right?
If yes, then, why don't " Christians" follow Yeshua, please?
Regards
rational experiences
Veteran Member
In our human past father mother as natural life first were brother sister first.
Notice love is mutual first without sex. The teaching you don't impose love to sex an act.
Healer warning is medical.
Then there is the advice father was never a theist or scientist. Father didn't build temples pyramids or machines.
Brothers did as the baby adult men.
A father was never celibate another advice what is a father in life of humans. Humans who infer titles in science codes.
So you look at your brother an equal.
Not everyone can be a king leader so he gave lord titles. He was hence king and lord in designer science one human and his brothers lords.
It's why king lord was never innocent of his choices as the sacrificed causes of his life.
Claimed he was innocent of evil as his origin man brother got unnaturally star fallen brain mind prickled to be the changed mind. First position. A theist.
Is humans teaching. Man reading themes as ADAM said it's why he was angered and MAD...writer of after causes. Life hurt.
So if a man knew sun star cold mass metals in a mass as power are greater than earths ....as star mass collided with earths mass. What law today says it won't do it again? In thinking...just thinking?
Seeing thinking doesn't own natural moving bodies anywhere in space?
His man's advice says.... I will blow it up in space. Myself. By rockets.
Notice ET and Rock is inferred by men.
Proving scientists on earth knew where the law a collision came from as first position one.
Is as many men the biggest con artist today using any type of man's taught story against natural life on earth.
Humanities warning.
So humans genesis same mutual first life isn't titled. Same parents for all humans today said medical advice.
So you can't use it against us in law as we inherited it by sex only. Yet scientists theory against us all daily...even use non human DNA advice against us.
Humans read the bible. Believed the first human sex act was wrong and evil. Were convinced it was.
So you ask natural advice baby life why does it make you angry? The first parent sex act...... As our evil brother was born amongst us who is a historic life abuser and we came to hate him.
As he is an inhumane destroyer liar.
Notice love is mutual first without sex. The teaching you don't impose love to sex an act.
Healer warning is medical.
Then there is the advice father was never a theist or scientist. Father didn't build temples pyramids or machines.
Brothers did as the baby adult men.
A father was never celibate another advice what is a father in life of humans. Humans who infer titles in science codes.
So you look at your brother an equal.
Not everyone can be a king leader so he gave lord titles. He was hence king and lord in designer science one human and his brothers lords.
It's why king lord was never innocent of his choices as the sacrificed causes of his life.
Claimed he was innocent of evil as his origin man brother got unnaturally star fallen brain mind prickled to be the changed mind. First position. A theist.
Is humans teaching. Man reading themes as ADAM said it's why he was angered and MAD...writer of after causes. Life hurt.
So if a man knew sun star cold mass metals in a mass as power are greater than earths ....as star mass collided with earths mass. What law today says it won't do it again? In thinking...just thinking?
Seeing thinking doesn't own natural moving bodies anywhere in space?
His man's advice says.... I will blow it up in space. Myself. By rockets.
Notice ET and Rock is inferred by men.
Proving scientists on earth knew where the law a collision came from as first position one.
Is as many men the biggest con artist today using any type of man's taught story against natural life on earth.
Humanities warning.
So humans genesis same mutual first life isn't titled. Same parents for all humans today said medical advice.
So you can't use it against us in law as we inherited it by sex only. Yet scientists theory against us all daily...even use non human DNA advice against us.
Humans read the bible. Believed the first human sex act was wrong and evil. Were convinced it was.
So you ask natural advice baby life why does it make you angry? The first parent sex act...... As our evil brother was born amongst us who is a historic life abuser and we came to hate him.
As he is an inhumane destroyer liar.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jedster
Flying through space
I am pretty sure that all Christians follow Jesus.
It seems to me that you only accept the spoken words of Jesus (as recorded in the Gospels), whereas Christians take their whole Bible as divinely given.
If you think the Bible is corrupted, then how do you know the words of Jesus are true?