I demand answers

[Yadon]

How can we believe in Karma when it's so injust? How can someone be punished for something they know nothing of, that was done by another person in a past life? When they have lived this life so honestly, so good-heartedly and with honor?

I was always on the fence about Karma, but a friend of mine is seriously hurt and they believe in Karma. The one time in their life they were going to finally be happy, do what they want to do, an injury takes it away from them and they are not getting better... it's going to affect them for life. Everything they love to do, be outdoors, rock climb, ect, is taken away FOR LIFE.

How is that fair? How is that just? That is EVIL.

I will do anything, anything at all to help them. All medical knowledge is failing, so all that is left is appeals to the divine, or whatever may be out there.

I'm terrified now more than ever at the possibility of there being nothing above.

 

[Poeticus]

How is that fair? How is that just? That is EVIL.

I offer my condolences.

But: Karma? Evil?

That would be like blaming the rain; or blaming the planet for rotating on its axis. Next thing you know, we would be condemning the stars for shining at night.​

 

[LuisDantas]

How can we believe in Karma when it's so injust?

By not being reincarnationists, and/or by not expecting existence to be fair.

 

[Ablaze]

According to the Buddha's teachings, karma isn't deterministic. It is not the sole reason for suffering. In Buddhism, there are five causal orders, only one of which is karma (meaning intention, actions of a volitional nature) - the others being physical, biological, metaphysical, and psychological. Any combination of these can lead to hardship.

Furthermore, in Buddhism, karma is not about punishment. It is simple cause-effect, action-reaction on the basis of one's intentions of body, speech, and mind. It is not some magical force dictating rewards or punishments. One's conduct and behavior have naturally occurring results.

When bad things happen to good people, it is more likely a result of the other causal orders - myriad causes and conditions coming together to give rise to further causes and conditions.

 

[Yadon]

These answers bring me no solace; Only rage at what happened. The worst part? It happened because they were saving someone as part of their job. And now the people that are to be there for them in return for their service to society are not helping nearly enough. I am convinced that my society does not care for it's heroes as much as we think, or there would be more help when they get hurt.

 

[Yadon]

According to the Buddha's teachings, karma isn't deterministic. It is not the sole reason for suffering. In Buddhism, there are five causal orders, only one of which is karma (meaning intention, actions of a volitional nature) - the others being physical, biological, metaphysical, and psychological. Any combination of these can lead to hardship.

Furthermore, in Buddhism, karma is not about punishment. It is simple cause-effect, action-reaction on the basis of one's intentions of body, speech, and mind. It is not some magical force dictating rewards or punishments. One's conduct and behavior have naturally occurring results.

When bad things happen to good people, it is more likely a result of the other causal orders - myriad causes and conditions coming together to give rise to further causes and conditions.

Then the "karma" was physics at play. I can't see in this light anything else playing a role in how they got hurt, other than they were doing what they were supposed to at the time.

 

[Ablaze]

Then the "karma" was physics at play. I can't see in this light anything else playing a role in how they got hurt, other than they were doing what they were supposed to at the time.

In that case, it would likely fall under the causal order of utu-niyāma (the physical sphere), not kamma-niyāma (the moral sphere). The two are dissociable. In other words, karma (will, volition, intention, action) has nothing to do with it.

 

[Yadon]

In that case, it would likely fall under the causal order of utu-niyāma (the physical sphere), not kamma-niyāma (the moral sphere). The two are dissociable. In other words, karma (will, volition, intention, action) has nothing to do with it.

That's the reason I feel it probably happened, but... it was kind of at the worst time possible.

I admit that prior I had a gut feeling that something might happen related to this for a couple of months before hand. I Just never thought it would be this bad.

I wish for once my gut was wrong. Then again I guess I wish that a lot since when I feel something bad is going to happen, it tends to happen.

 

[Valjean]

It's not punishment. It's just cause and effect. You might be thinking in terms of Abrahamic concepts of sin, punishment and reward. These don't apply to dharmic religions.

Hold a hammer over your foot and drop it, or smoke 40 cigarettes a day, the broken toe or cancer is not punishment. It's just physics/biochemistry.

 

[Yadon]

It's not punishment. It's just cause and effect. You might be thinking in terms of Abrahamic concepts of sin, punishment and reward. These don't apply to dharmic religions.

Hold a hammer over your foot and drop it. The broken toe is not punishment. It's just physics.

I meant Karma as it pertains to as a result of one's moral actions. This is very well a concept in religions that have concepts of Dharma.

In Abrahamic religions one is usually punished or rewarded after death, and is also much different then how Karma works.

 

[LuisDantas]

Karma isn't about morality, not in that way. It is a reason to be wise and avoid dangerous choices, not to expect fair payback from existence.

 

[Yadon]

Karma isn't about morality, not in that way. It is a reason to be wise and avoid dangerous choices, not to expect fair payback from existence.

I've heard it explained both ways before.

 

[crossfire]

I meant Karma as it pertains to as a result of one's moral actions. This is very well a concept in religions that have concepts of Dharma.

In Abrahamic religions one is usually punished or rewarded after death, and is also much different then how Karma works.

In Buddhism, this type of intentional karma affects ones mind--if you intentionally develop unskillful habitual thought patterns, your mind will become unskillful in what ends long term-harm. You are not "punished" for your "sins," you are "punished" by your "sins." {If that makes sense. I tried to express it in Abrahamic terms.}

 

[Yadon]

I never said they were punished for, but they do seem to believe it happened as a result of something they think they might of done in this life or a previous one (they were not always the angel they are today as per this life, or so they say/think).

And what of the Hindu religions?

 

[YmirGF]

How can we believe in Karma when it's so injust? How can someone be punished for something they know nothing of, that was done by another person in a past life? When they have lived this life so honestly, so good-heartedly and with honor?

I was always on the fence about Karma, but a friend of mine is seriously hurt and they believe in Karma. The one time in their life they were going to finally be happy, do what they want to do, an injury takes it away from them and they are not getting better... it's going to affect them for life. Everything they love to do, be outdoors, rock climb, ect, is taken away FOR LIFE.

How is that fair? How is that just? That is EVIL.

I will do anything, anything at all to help them. All medical knowledge is failing, so all that is left is appeals to the divine, or whatever may be out there.

I'm terrified now more than ever at the possibility of there being nothing above.

I'm not a fan of karma, especially as the term is commonly understood. Even the notion of cause and effect gets muddied in determining what caused a given effect. In many cases we can ascertain a cause to a given effect, but there are also those messy instances where the inexplicable takes center stage and we are left scratching our heads.

I do feel for your friend and the dumbfounding situation that they find themselves in, but I can only say that karma is not the reason or the answer. Perhaps they should spend some time to re-evaluate the things they believe and how useful some concepts are and which concepts should be thrown onto the trash-heap of outgrown ideas.

 

[YmirGF]

I never said they were punished for, but they do seem to believe it happened as a result of something they think they might of done in this life or a previous one (they were not always the angel they are today as per this life, or so they say/think).

And what of the Hindu religions?

You see, my friend, reality does not work this way. The individual is NEVER at the mercy of what they did in any other existence - regardless of what anyone tells you. Psychologically speaking, believing one is at the mercy of what they did 12 existences ago could quite possibly setup a huge sense of guilt that may well have grave consequences for an individual in their current existence.

 

[Yadon]

I do feel for your friend and the dumbfounding situation that they find themselves in, but I can only say that karma is not the reason or the answer. Perhaps they should spend some time to re-evaluate the things they believe and how useful some concepts are and which concepts should be thrown onto the trash-heap of outgrown ideas.

That is probably the worst thing I could say to them. Though oddly, in the past they didn't believe in Karma. So maybe their remark about karma wasn't serious. I don't know, they recently changed paths somewhat back to an older path they used to have.

 

[Poeticus]

And what of the Hindu religions?

As you probably already know, it varies from one Hindu sect to another.

 

[crossfire]

I never said they were punished for, but they do seem to believe it happened as a result of something they think they might of done in this life or a previous one (they were not always the angel they are today as per this life, or so they say/think).

The first 6 lines of the Dhammapada, (which I will hide,) which points to the mind as being the chief creator of such. If someone suspects some sort of disruptive pattern within their mind, it might be prudent to look into ones mind and discern the way to end this disruptive thought pattern.

Spoiler: Dhammapada 1:1-6

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.

And what of the Hindu religions?

I can't speak for Hinduism.

 

[Valjean]

Quote: Yadon
I meant Karma as it pertains to as a result of one's moral actions. This is very well a concept in religions that have concepts of Dharma.

Same thing. There's plenty of sin and right and wrong in popular Hinduism, but not among Vedic scholars. It's all popular poppycock.

Births are determined by karma. Violate your dharma and the karmic consequence could be an inauspicious birth. There's no cosmic judge, no commandments. It's all mechanical -- perturbations in the cosmic field, so to speak.

Murder someone and you'll create eddies in the flow that will divert you from the most direct route to enlightenment. (unless you're a Thuggee, of course). No sin, no judge, no punishment. It's all just mechanical.

Keep in mind that the world you perceive in 3rd state is an illusion. Our lives are dreams. Our actions are illusion. Our victims are illusions. We are illusions. It's not really happening. It's all just a video game. We're cosmic strings, our actions just vibrations.