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I don't particularly want to sin...

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
All I saw was a string of subjective unevidenced assertions, nothing more?

Fair enough. I didn't give evidence that they are in all the earth witnessing to Jehovah's name. But the evidence is there. And is not hard to find.

For example just visit https://www.jw.org/en/. It is now available in over 1,050 languages.

Screenshot (4).png


And they produce the Bible and Bible based literature in over 500 languages, and are in 239 lands and island nations of the earth. Here is year report from last year:

Grand totals:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2021-service-year-report/2021-grand-totals/

Breakdown by nation:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2021-service-year-report/2021-country-territory/

There are dozens of other references I can give to uphold what was stated as fact not just "subjective unevidenced assertions." The fact that all of this is happening exactly the way the living God in the Bible foretold thousands of years ago is proof of his Godship. No false god could form or bring about such a thing.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Fair enough. I didn't give evidence that they are in all the earth witnessing to Jehovah's name. But the evidence is there. And is not hard to find.

For example just visit https://www.jw.org/en/. It is now available in over 1,050 languages. And they produce the Bible and Bible based literature in over 500 languages, and are in over 240 lands and island nations of the earth. Here is year report from last year:

Grand totals:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2021-service-year-report/2021-grand-totals/

Breakdown by nation:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2021-service-year-report/2021-country-territory/

There are dozens of other references I can give to uphold what was stated as fact not just "subjective unevidenced assertions." The fact that all of this is happening exactly the way the living God in the Bible foretold thousands of years ago is proof of his Godship. No false god could form or bring about such a thing.
The Bible is filled with claims, not evidence.
It's circular reasoning to attempt to prove the Bible by quoting the Bible.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
What you provided me with were claims, as noted.

It is a fact that the God's word foretold Jehovah would have witnesses. It is a fact that Jesus foretold that before the end comes the good news would be preached in all the inhabited earth (Matthew 24:14). And it is a fact these prophecies are in fulfillment today.

The Bible is replete with verifiable and accurate prophecies such as these. I could give you dozens of other examples.

One such example:

Jehovah through his prophet Isaiah foretold that Babylon, then the world power would be swept with the "broom of annihilation" and through Jeremiah he foretold Babylon would never be inhabited again. (Isaiah 13:19; 14:22, 23).

"Therefore, the desert creatures will dwell with the howling animals, And in her the ostriches will dwell. She will never again be inhabited, Nor will she be a place of residence throughout all generations.”-Jeremiah 50:39.



Isaiah describes in exact detail how Babylon would fall, and even names the person who would do it 200 years before he was born:

(Isaiah 44:27-45:1) . . .The One saying to the deep waters, ‘Be evaporated, And I will dry up all your rivers’; 28 The One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, And he will completely carry out all my will’; The One saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’” 45 This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have taken hold of To subdue nations before him, To disarm kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut.

The prophecy goes into such exact detail (which was confirmed in Herodotus' Histories) that critrics even to this day cannot believe the prophecy was written hundreds of years before it happened. Jehovah God named Cyrus by name 200 years before he was born. The fact that Isaiah was written long long ago is provided in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Isaiah Scroll was carbon dated to 300 B. C. E. So it had long been considered as canon by that time.

Still Babylon did not become uninhabited until centuries after Jesus died.

Isaiah 13:20 states about Babylon:

"“She will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation. And there the Arab will not pitch his tent, and no shepherds will let their flocks lie down there.”

Jehovah had the prophet Jeremiah prophecy about Babylon:

"And Babylon will become piles of stones, A lair of jackals, An object of horror and something to whistle at, Without an inhabitant."-Jeremiah 51:37.

In the first century C.E., there was a settlement of Jews in Babylon, and the Bible writer Peter visited there. (1 Peter 5:13) By that time, the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah had been in existence for the better part of two centuries. So, as of the first century C.E., Babylon still was not completely desolate, yet Isaiah’s book had been finished long before then.

According to the Hebrew scholar Jerome (fourth century C.E.), by his day Babylon was a hunting ground in which “beasts of every type” roamed. Babylon remains desolate to this day.

Isaiah never lived to see Babylon become uninhabited. But the ruins of that once powerful city, about 50 miles south of Baghdad, in modern Iraq, bear silent testimony to the fulfillment of his words: “She will never be inhabited.” Babylon’s “progeny and posterity” are gone forever.—Isaiah 13:20; 14:22, 23.

We could go on and on and on with accurate reliable provable verifiable evidence that Bible prophecy is not just "unevidenced assertions" assumptions and claims that cannot be verified.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It is a fact that the God's word foretold Jehovah would have witnesses. It is a fact that Jesus foretold that before the end comes the good news would be preached in all the inhabited earth (Matthew 24:14). And it is a fact these prophecies are in fulfillment today.

The Bible is replete with verifiable and accurate prophecies such as these. I could give you dozens of other examples.

One such example:

Jehovah through his prophet Isaiah foretold that Babylon, then the world power would be swept with the "broom of annihilation" and would never be inhabited again. (Isaiah 13:19; 14:22, 23). Isaiah describes in exact detail how Babylon would fall, and even names the person who would do it 200 years before he was born:

(Isaiah 44:27-45:1) . . .The One saying to the deep waters, ‘Be evaporated, And I will dry up all your rivers’; 28 The One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, And he will completely carry out all my will’; The One saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’” 45 This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have taken hold of To subdue nations before him, To disarm kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut.

The prophecy goes into such exact detail (which was confirmed in Herodotus' Histories) that critrics even to this day cannot believe the prophecy was written hundreds of years before it happened. Jehovah God named Cyrus by name 200 years before he was born. The fact that Isaiah was written long long ago is provided in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Isaiah Scroll was carbon dated to 300 B. C. E. So it had long been considered as canon by that time.

Still Babylon did not become uninhabited until centuries after Jesus died.

Isaiah 13:20 states about Babylon:

"“She will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation. And there the Arab will not pitch his tent, and no shepherds will let their flocks lie down there.”

Jehovah had the prophet Jeremiah prophecy about Babylon:

"And Babylon will become piles of stones, A lair of jackals, An object of horror and something to whistle at, Without an inhabitant."-Jeremiah 51:37.

In the first century C.E., there was a settlement of Jews in Babylon, and the Bible writer Peter visited there. (1 Peter 5:13) By that time, the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah had been in existence for the better part of two centuries. So, as of the first century C.E., Babylon still was not completely desolate, yet Isaiah’s book had been finished long before then.

According to the Hebrew scholar Jerome (fourth century C.E.), by his day Babylon was a hunting ground in which “beasts of every type” roamed. Babylon remains desolate to this day.

Isaiah never lived to see Babylon become uninhabited. But the ruins of that once powerful city, about 50 miles south of Baghdad, in modern Iraq, bear silent testimony to the fulfillment of his words: “She will never be inhabited.” Babylon’s “progeny and posterity” are gone forever.—Isaiah 13:20; 14:22, 23.

We could go on and on and on with accurate reliable provable verifiable evidence that Bible prophecy is not just "unevidenced assertions" assumptions and claims that cannot be verified.
As noted at least twice now, those aren't facts, they're claims. They are unverified stories in old books. It's circular reasoning to use the book as evidence to show the book is true.
It's basically just preaching.

Nostradamus made prophecies that many people believe have come true. So what?
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
As noted at least twice now, those aren't facts, they're claims. They are unverified stories in old books. It's circular reasoning to use the book as evidence to show the book is true.
It's basically just preaching.

Nostradamus made prophecies that many people believe have come true. So what?

This is a good example of what is wrong with being too critical and skeptical. I gave you verifiable facts that can be proven by archeology and history. And yet you just ignored it and denied it is real.

I think that is what it boils down to in the end when you give evidence to a person who doesn't want it.
 
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leroy

Well-Known Member
This is, of course, in counterpoint the thread "I just want to sin!!"

I offer up this question to those believers who honestly think that, without God, everything is permitted. That is, if you really do believe that dictum ("without God, everything is permitted"), then you must also admit that if you did not believe in God, and follow what you believe to be God's commands, you would not know right from wrong.

Really? Is that really true?

Make a case for me, anyone who really thinks that.
Yes that is the claim, without God, everything would be permitted and right and wrong would depend on my own personal opinion.

If I where an atheist, I would live in denial and live my daily life based on the assumption that there are “objective goods” and “objective bads”……….but deep inside I would know that it is not the case.

Pretty much like when people say that their favorite football team is the best, when deep inside they know it isn’t,
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Many are good people. And many are bad people. The bad conform to norms for the most part, but can act in subtle ways that harm society and civilization, like denying climate change. Refusing to get vaccinated and wear a mask in public. These seem harmless at face value, but it illustrates a contempt for the social contract that we all rely on to help maintain order, civility, and progress. Much of this attitude is due to ignorance and belief. Religions do not counter ignorance and belief, and often help perpetuate this sort of "truth". So if you really wanted to help build unity the Baha'i would acknowledge that minimizing religious belief, dogma, ideological "truth", ego, etc. Baha'i are asking others to sacrifice but do nothing to lead the way. Sacrifice your religious dogma. Denounce the dogma, and promote unity through a unified mind of humanity and social contract.

Eliminating prejudices is very important for a healthy society. In this age we struggle so much to get along with each other so looking at what we have in common can help us build a common bond.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You're a theist, and like many other theists you seem to assign meaning to your religious dictates. And like many other theists who assign meaning to their religious dictates they are enforced by the authority of your God, so not questionable by we mere mortals.

So when you acknowledge there are terrorist as bad people, and then mention 1.7 Muslims, I'm curious where you draw the line between good and bad. We are aware that some Muslim societies will stone a girl to death because she refuses to marry the man she was given to. Or dare love a man that she loves. To the society of Muslims this is moral and God"s law. Do you accept these people as good?

It's a tricky question because we judge these more traditional societies from a more advanced moral framework. But you are actively seeking global unity so you have to assess these people, and if you consider them as good, or as a people who need to adjust and change to the times.

If it is the latter, then what is your obligation to adjust and change?

It’s up to each nation to decide how much or how little of past traditions it feels necessary to hang onto in this modern age. Change cannot be forced but can come about through education. We are in a transitional phase where the old is being questioned and but the real challenge for humanity is to discard these ways and move towards a more humane society. Humanity won’t transform overnight but it is slowly changing.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If humans believe in spiritual advice 2012 was time to begin again.

Christ consciousness returned after old science had burnt it out by causes.

Anti.

Now Christ is only Christ. As one name is one meaning it's status Christ.

So anti Christ is a false preaching as Christ should not have been removed.

The real teaching.

So Christ has not returned its predicted mass body as nuclear science began again. The ufo fake state God of the machine. Burning heavens into falling out again.

Humans spiritual evolution mind healing obviously has not occurred.

Evidence given. Science is life's destroyer.

You read. You preach. The year 2022. You have the evidence the promise of men was not kept.

The bible predictions finished.

Humans claim we now need new orders. Believe they do. Preach they do

So who is writing a new book. No one.

What is the new order? There is none.

What is the man of science great architect designer rich men going to choose promise today?
 

DNB

Christian
Dolphins, elephants, other primates, your assertion is very off base from reality.
Mosquitos, lizards, reptiles, insects, lions, camels, eagles, vultures, giraffes, tuna, salmon, barracuda, piranha, amoeba, hydra, squirrels, badgers, orcas, great whites, etc.....
I think that your understanding of the animal kingdom is entirely off-base with reality.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Mosquitos, lizards, reptiles, insects, lions, camels, eagles, vultures, giraffes, tuna, salmon, barracuda, piranha, amoeba, hydra, squirrels, badgers, orcas, great whites, etc.....
I think that your understanding of the animal kingdom is entirely off-base with reality.
Are you under impression that citing random animals negates her perfectly sound point? :p
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It’s up to each nation to decide how much or how little of past traditions it feels necessary to hang onto in this modern age.
That is why an Islamic nation can behead people for being a journalist, and God approves (because the leaders says so). Those will be crimes in more advanced nations due to secular laws.

Change cannot be forced but can come about through education. We are in a transitional phase where the old is being questioned and but the real challenge for humanity is to discard these ways and move towards a more humane society. Humanity won’t transform overnight but it is slowly changing.
Open minded liberalism wants to move forward, but conservatism is moving towards authoritarianism and causing serious steps backwards. You guys should involve yourselves in politics.
 
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