I don't particularly want to sin...

[DNB]

I disagree. And I think it's been clearly demonstrated in this thread that lying can be a moral action.

You only gave two options, there's always a third...

 

[DNB]

More claims.

I repeat, "Once you have demonstrated that "men are spiritual beings" (Not women too, or ... ?), then that is the time to believe it."

Yes, women too, all humans.

 

[ppp]

You only gave two options, there's always a third...

Sometimes there are 90. @SkepticThinker still demonstrated that lying can be a moral qction

 

[alypius]

What if the outcome in the world when people insist on their god's moral dominion is that the people with the most resources kill those with less, enslave them and pillage their land.

Like, you know, what happened throughout history.

What evidence is there to support this view?

 

[ppp]

What evidence is there to support this view?

I don't understand the question. What exactly are you asking me to support?

 

[alypius]

What evidence is there to support this view?

The claim was made that when people insist on their god's moral dominion then the people with most resources oppress others. What evidence is there to support this claim?

 

[ppp]

The claim was made that when people insist on their god's moral dominion then the people with most resources oppress others. What evidence is there to support this claim?

Are you just wanting me to cite times that it happened? All the wars in the Old Testament. A few dozen religious pogroms throughout history. Albigensian Crusade. Bohemian Crusade. Holy Roman Empire. Catholics v Protestants v Protestants. Muslim v Hindu. Muslim Empire. Inquisitions. Atlantic Slave Trade. Colonization. Manifest Destiny. Residential Schools of Canada. Etc

 

[oldbadger]

This is, of course, in counterpoint the thread "I just want to sin!!"

I offer up this question to those believers who honestly think that, without God, everything is permitted. That is, if you really do believe that dictum ("without God, everything is permitted"), then you must also admit that if you did not believe in God, and follow what you believe to be God's commands, you would not know right from wrong.

Really? Is that really true?

Make a case for me, anyone who really thinks that.

Sinning is bl**dy good fun.
Being a Deist I don't get that gorgeous naughty feeling any more, that I remember from my Pseudo quasi Christian days, being naughty is SO much more zinging if you think it's really really bad or naughty, but I still try my best for those old feelings of theistic guilt.

 

[Muffled]

So are you suggesting you (as an individual, and not a god) would excuse Germans who cooperated with the Nazis if they lacked the courage to oppose them?

If so, the question is why isn't your God instilling Christians with the courage to oppose evil? A useless God if it just sits back and watches atrocities occur against its chosen people by Christians.

I believe as a Christian I forgive everyone just as Jesus instructed.

I believe it is God's job to judge and oppose evil. Christians are instructed not to do so.

God is perfect in all His goodness even if sometimes His judgment is harsh. Was not Germany punished? Did not Jews deny God and expect Him to be ok with that?

 

[Muffled]

No, he's making an observation. When a text refers to a God, and no such God is known to exist as described, nor is there objective, factual evidence demonstrating it is even plausible, that is deemed a claim by the story IF it is asserted true by fallible mortals, like yourself.

That's why you believe in God and don't say you know God exists. You could be mistaken in your belief.

I believe I am proof that there is God. I have a post for that. I can be wrong but I am not.

 

[Muffled]

The evidence is the existence of the Bible (several different kinds of Bibles, in fact) that make(s) a ton of claims.

I believe I have read science books where a ton of claims are made and not all of them can be backed up. I believe Bible claims to be true because they come from God. Science comes from sinful fallible man.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I can be wrong but I am not.

??

 

[SkepticThinker]

I believe I have read science books where a ton of claims are made and not all of them can be backed up. I believe Bible claims to be true because they come from God. Science comes from sinful fallible man.

All scientific claims are backed by evidence.

How do you know the Bible comes from God?
Science comes from an honest assessment of the available evidence. It's not a sin to do science.

 

[Sheldon]

I believe I have read science books where a ton of claims are made and not all of them can be backed up. I believe Bible claims to be true because they come from God. Science comes from sinful fallible man.

Then turn your computer off, and stop using it, the internet and electricity, and simply pray we get your posts. When a deity sends them to me, I will accept this risible claim of yours, and tell you so.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't particularly want to sin...

Is one under some compulsion to sin, please?

Regards

 

[Muffled]

??

I believe it helps if you phrase the question.

 

[Muffled]

All scientific claims are backed by evidence.

How do you know the Bible comes from God?
Science comes from an honest assessment of the available evidence. It's not a sin to do science.

I believe Flying saucers are backed by evidence. However is the evidence enough to call it proof. After all in the science of medieval times the evidence of illness meant that they had contacted bad humors. The reality is that people interpret the meaning of the evidence and often get it wrong.

 

[Muffled]

Then turn your computer off, and stop using it, the internet and electricity, and simply pray we get your posts. When a deity sends them to me, I will accept this risible claim of yours, and tell you so.

I believe you will get no sign until it is too late.

 

[Sheldon]

Muffled said: ↑
I believe I have read science books where a ton of claims are made and not all of them can be backed up. I believe Bible claims to be true because they come from God. Science comes from sinful fallible man.

Sheldon said: ↑
Then turn your computer off, and stop using it, the internet and electricity, and simply pray we get your posts. When a deity sends them to me, I will accept this risible claim of yours, and tell you so.

I believe you will get no sign until it is too late.

I suspect you're right, which rather proves the point I was making.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't particularly want to sin...

Is one under some compulsion to sin, please?

Everybody acts with sin or does a good-deed out of one's own will, I understand. Right?
If one doesn't want to sin particularly or normally, one doesn't have to, just don't do it, simply please. Agree?

Regards