I don't think the Apostles had much authority...

[Rainbow Mage]

What I mean is I don't think the Apostles were the perfect transmitters of Jesus' doctrine that the church claims. When Jesus was killed it shocked them. They were now without their teacher, trying to piece it all together the best they could.

They did a rather sloppy job of it. Despite what Orthodoxy puts forth, the Apostles did not agree on everything. They had disputes.

Its kind of obvious they were pressed by the early Jesus movement into being the leaders, and that they weren't entirely equipped for it.

What then makes them the ultimate pillars of truth when it comes to following Christ?

 

[Bob Dixon]

What I mean is I don't think the Apostles were the perfect transmitters of Jesus' doctrine that the church claims. When Jesus was killed it shocked them. They were now without their teacher, trying to piece it all together the best they could.

They did a rather sloppy job of it. Despite what Orthodoxy puts forth, the Apostles did not agree on everything. They had disputes.

Its kind of obvious they were pressed by the early Jesus movement into being the leaders, and that they weren't entirely equipped for it.

What then makes them the ultimate pillars of truth when it comes to following Christ?

I wouldn't say that they're the "ultimate pillars of truth". That title belongs to Christ only.
However, the Apostles did have the best first-hand experience of Jesus' teachings. You can sit on RF all day trying to debate their interpretations, but you can't deny that they had the absolute best source: wandering around with Jesus, hearing him teach and talk A LOT.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I am not going to deny that, I just wonder how well equipped they were to lead the early church, a burden they had thrust on them. They were also almost all illiterate.

I also wonder about the things that Jesus didn't say that they kind of had to fill in the blank on, like bringing non-Jews into the fold. Without their teacher they often had to make a guess, and who knows if they guessed right?

I could go on and on, but my point was that the Apostles were still students themselves when Jesus was killed. They weren't equipped to be teachers, they were still learning.

 

[Bob Dixon]

I am not going to deny that, I just wonder how well equipped they were to lead the early church, a burden they had thrust on them. They were also almost all illiterate.

I also wonder about the things that Jesus didn't say that they kind of had to fill in the blank on, like bringing non-Jews into the fold. Without their teacher they often had to make a guess, and who knows if they guessed right?

I could go on and on, but my point was that the Apostles were still students themselves when Jesus was killed. They weren't equipped to be teachers, they were still learning.

No, you're right, you're right. We can't know why this is, but we have to make the best of it and it's imperative that we remember that we're students, too. Students learning from students.
What we have from the Apostles is the memory. What we do with it is now up to us. Now that we have been emancipated from the stranglehold of the Church on our day-to-day affairs (well, at least, in civilised countries; the rest of the world will follow soon) we are free to really get in there, check out those memories for ourselves and interpret them to try to see what was said, what was meant, and how that applies to us.

 

[Me Myself]

I agree. I don´t trust the apostles that much.

 

[InChrist]

The apostles were equipped by the the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26

 

[Me Myself]

The apostles were equipped by the the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26

Sure, but they were still men. They were also with Jesus before, and with Jesus they still made mistakes, why would they not make mistakes with the holy spirit? They get better from it, but not perfect from it.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Most Christianity today doesn't really descend from any of the apostles - bits and pieces, and appropriations mostly, but from Paul, the self-appointed apostle.

Scripturally, we're the inheritors of the inheritors of the inheritors of the apostles, or those who claimed to be. 95% of Christian scripture from the apostolic and immediately succeeding era is now destroyed or hidden to the point of being forgotten. Only two fortuitous finds of sealed jars in the desert has kept this knowledge from extinction.

People may lean on the apostles for authority, but in reality, we have very little to go on when it comes to the apostles.

 

[fallingblood]

What I mean is I don't think the Apostles were the perfect transmitters of Jesus' doctrine that the church claims. When Jesus was killed it shocked them. They were now without their teacher, trying to piece it all together the best they could.

They did a rather sloppy job of it. Despite what Orthodoxy puts forth, the Apostles did not agree on everything. They had disputes.

Its kind of obvious they were pressed by the early Jesus movement into being the leaders, and that they weren't entirely equipped for it.

What then makes them the ultimate pillars of truth when it comes to following Christ?

What I find interesting is that James, the brother of Jesus, ends up taking the reigns of the movement after Jesus died. Even though he was not a disciple, and from what we are told, had issues with Jesus, he still took lead.

I think they were quite prepared though for continuing this mission. At least some of them were. Jesus after all wasn't preaching something that was new. He was continuing along the same lines of John the Baptist, and it appears that some of the other disciples of Jesus had also been disciples of John. So I think they had a good foundation.

I also think Jesus knew fully well that he may be killed. He saw John the Baptist killed, and knew that if he preached the same type of message, his life would be in danger. So I think he would have prepared for that, and made sure his disciples were well prepared.

 

[InChrist]

Sure, but they were still men. They were also with Jesus before, and with Jesus they still made mistakes, why would they not make mistakes with the holy spirit? They get better from it, but not perfect from it.

It seems to me that God chose to do His perfect work through imperfect men.

 

[Bob Dixon]

It seems to me that God chose to do His perfect work through imperfect men.

Of course. Imperfect men preach to imperfect men. They preach the perfect message, but since a man cannot be perfect, they can only preach it imperfectly.
Yes, they could be better, but who's to say that they weren't the best available at that time and place?