I find a clash in a secular based value system

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Value is always subjective. One values their family and friends more than the randos one passes on the street, generally speaking. One values one's children more than say one's friends, but that's mainly due to instinct.
None of that naturally goes with the idea that they are valueless because they will rot. Such a viewpoint is shortsighted and only looks at the destination. But life is about the journey. Death is the destination.

The ego never wishes to die and hates to die. That is the reason why I find value in both humanity and life only through living forever in eternal bliss.

 

[SomeRandom]

The ego never wishes to die and hates to die. That is the reason why I find value in both humanity and life only through living forever in eternal bliss.

The human ego is a spoilt toddler. It just throws a tantrum when it doesn't get what it wants.
Acquiescing to the ego is shallow. Hell it's the easy way out. There's no growth there, there's no learning. IMO.
It's a very childlike view, one that has been doted on and never told no. You want the cake and to eat it too. I understand such selfishness, because as humans we all go through that stage as a survival technique. Most people however, at least, lose some of that as they age and become more community minded. Again as a survival technique.
But religion, or hell even philosophies, spiritual growth is seen to extend beyond such pettiness as the human ego. To strive to leave it behind even.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

The human ego is a spoilt toddler. It just throws a tantrum when it doesn't get what it wants.
Acquiescing to the ego is shallow. Hell it's the easy way out. There's no growth there, there's no learning. IMO.
It's a very childlike view, one that has been doted on and never told no. You want the cake and to eat it too. I understand such selfishness, because as humans we all go through that stage as a survival technique. Most people however, at least, lose some of that as they age and become more community minded. Again as a survival technique.
But religion, or hell even philosophies, spiritual growth is seen to extend beyond such pettiness as the human ego. To strive to leave it behind even.

Who I am as a person does not give my life any value or worth. It doesn't matter how strong, how developed/undeveloped I am, how weak, how cowardly, or how brave I am. All that matters is that I feel good for all eternity and get whatever I want for eternity. I am aware of spiritual beliefs that embrace the ego as a beautiful thing. It embraces the ego in such a way that the ego symbolizes not a child, but a liberal who wants to be free like a wild animal in the beautiful wilderness for all eternity. These beliefs would say that this egocentric yearning for eternal bliss and to get whatever we desire is a reflection of our eternal divine nature as souls. I wish such spiritual beliefs were true.

 

[SomeRandom]

Who I am as a person does not give my life any value or worth. It doesn't matter how strong, how developed/undeveloped I am, how weak, how cowardly, or how brave I am. All that matters is that I feel good for all eternity and get whatever I want for eternity. I am aware of spiritual beliefs that embrace the ego as a beautiful thing. It embraces the ego in such a way that the ego symbolizes not a child, but a liberal who wants to be free like a wild animal in the beautiful wilderness for all eternity. These beliefs would say that this egocentric yearning for eternal bliss and to get whatever we desire is a reflection of our eternal divine nature as souls. I wish such spiritual beliefs were true.

Well, that just cheapens the human experience, really. We are programed to seek out things that gives us pleasure, of course. Such instincts are base and come from a simplistic way of living. That of sheer survival. Humans like to think of themselves as separate from that, above such inane desires controlling us all the time. But part of living in a human society is to sack the hell up and do things that is not always desirable. Even children learn how to deal with that, when they go to school (unless they are very academically inclined. But such things are not the norm among the populous.) It's part of growing up and taking some responsibility like an adult. To only seek out hedonistic joys may bring one happiness for a while. But like eating your favourite meal every single day, it becomes boring and lifeless. As such antics if done regularly enough become mundane and dull.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Well, that just cheapens the human experience, really. We are programed to seek out things that gives us pleasure, of course. Such instincts are base and come from a simplistic way of living. That of sheer survival. Humans like to think of themselves as separate from that, above such inane desires controlling us all the time. But part of living in a human society is to sack the hell up and do things that is not always desirable. Even children learn how to deal with that, when they go to school (unless they are very academically inclined. But such things are not the norm among the populous.) It's part of growing up and taking some responsibility like an adult. To only seek out hedonistic joys may bring one happiness for a while. But like eating your favourite meal every single day, it becomes boring and lifeless. As such antics if done regularly enough become mundane and dull.

I am the decider of my own life here. If I don't want to live a life in which I struggle with depression or anhedonia and I can't seem to recover these good feelings back to me within a reasonable time frame, then I have no obligation to remain in this life and live a way of life I have no desire to live and find no value and worth in living. Also, you are wrong in saying that a hedonistic way of life would grow bored and tiresome for me. It never has because I have lived that way my entire life and it was the greatest life for me. This is because my good feelings are not mere materialistic things that grow tired for me after a while. They are life depending for me to give my life value, joy, beauty, and worth.

 

[SomeRandom]

I am the decider of my own life here. If I don't want to live a life in which I struggle with depression or anhedonia and I can't seem to recover these good feelings back to me within a reasonable time frame, then I have no obligation to remain in this life and live a way of life I have no desire to live and find no value and worth in living. Also, you are wrong in saying that a hedonistic way of life would grow bored and tiresome for me. It never has because I have lived that way my entire life and it was the greatest life for me. This is because my good feelings are not mere materialistic things that grow tired for me after a while. They are life depending for me to give my life value, joy, beauty, and worth.

Well you do you. But I still find your outlooks highly pessimistic. Especially for a hedonist.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Read This Bolded Summary Instead: I will post a summary of this post that gets my point across. With a beautiful rose, I can find value in that rose even though it will decay away one day. But when it comes to a human being, then this person cannot be like a rose which would solely be a nature-based thing that will forever rot and decay away one day. This is because that takes away the human value of a human being and replaces it with a "rose" based human value. In other words, it makes human beings look like nothing more than roses or plants that will just forever wilt and decay away one day. Since the value we have as human beings is being subjected (clashed) with this "rose" based value, then that takes away the real human value of human beings.

In order for a human based value to be established, then it cannot have any relationship to things such as roses or a car which are things that will rot, rust, and decay away one day and that be the end of them. If it has any relationship, then that makes any value claim of a human being not a genuine value at all. By having a relationship, then you subject human value to mere things such as the value that a car or rose has which are mere transient things that will rust and decay away one day. In other words, by having a relationship, you take away the human value of a human being and replace it with the value that a car or a rose has.

Our human value is something very special, precious, and dear to us. We do not want that value to be subjected to the type of value that a car or a rose has. It becomes a major problem for most of us when our value is put into the context (framework) of the value of mere transient materialistic things. It is both degrading and insulting to the value we have as human beings and reduces said value to nothing more than cosmic dust. We wish to be special, unique, and different from mere transient materialistic things. Most of us wish to be divine eternal souls who are loved by a God who get to live in eternal bliss.

When I say secular, I mean the whole idea that this is the only life we got and that once we die, that is it. Where the clash comes in here is the personal value we have as human beings with the insignificance we have in this universe. Imagine if there were a beautiful young child and I said to him/her:

"This child is a very beautiful person, BUT he/she will rot and decay away like trash because that is all he/she is (in the grand scheme of things). He/she is nothing more than insignificant trash in the grand scheme of things. We are all just biological organisms in the grand scheme of things only to have the precious value we have as human beings rot and decay away."

I see a major clash here in this quote. I cannot see how this child is a beautiful person when that is being clashed with the whole idea that we are insignificant trash in the grand scheme of things. The only way to create harmony between the claimed beauty of the child and the grand scheme of things would be to have this universe be one that is meant for us. A universe where we are souls who are more than our biology who get to live on happily ever after with a God who truly loves us.

This harmony is what would allow the claimed beauty of the child to finally be established as firm and sound beauty. Otherwise, there would be a clash which is no different than pinning up a positive against a negative. The positive and negative would cancel each other out. Therefore, you cannot have the positive value of a human being (beauty) when you have the negative (the idea that we are insignificant trash in this universe).

That's just how life works. If you pin up a positive force against a negative force, then they will both cancel each other out. Again, the child would be significant to those who love him/her in terms of personal value. But when that gets clashed with the idea that we have no value in the grand scheme of things and that we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, then that is when things cancel out.

When I talk about establishing harmony, I am not talking about any religion here because it is often the case that you are punished and go to hell according to some religions. I am instead talking about a truly loving God and a truly beautiful and eternal blissful afterlife. Therefore, I really hope there is such a God and afterlife. I really hope it is not some Christian based God or afterlife.

I still don't preach Nihilism.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

I can be a bit disconnected to things too.
I just learned this right now.
the doctrine of an extreme Russian revolutionary party c. 1900, which found nothing to approve of in the established social order.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

The beautiful thing about being a sentient? Is that we get to choose The Meaning Of Life.

Unfortunately, all too often, people are bent on imposing their version of Meaning onto everyone else-- to the point of passing laws enforcing it, if they can.




Cognitive Bias, at work, in the above statement. The child is hardly "insignificant trash" to those who love the child, now IS he/she?

Why does your ego require more than that?

What sort of oversized ego do you need, to insist that the Ultimate Creator of Everything has a close and personal relationship with.... you?

Read This Bolded Summary Instead: I will post a summary of this post that gets my point across. With a beautiful rose, I can find value in that rose even though it will decay away one day. But when it comes to a human being, then this person cannot be like a rose which would solely be a nature-based thing that will forever rot and decay away one day. This is because that takes away the human value of a human being and replaces it with a "rose" based human value. In other words, it makes human beings look like nothing more than roses or plants that will just forever wilt and decay away one day. Since the value we have as human beings is being subjected (clashed) with this "rose" based value, then that takes away the real human value of human beings.

In order for a human based value to be established, then it cannot have any relationship to things such as roses or a car which are things that will rot, rust, and decay away one day and that be the end of them. If it has any relationship, then that makes any value claim of a human being not a genuine value at all. By having a relationship, then you subject human value to mere things such as the value that a car or rose has which are mere transient things that will rust and decay away one day. In other words, by having a relationship, you take away the human value of a human being and replace it with the value that a car or a rose has.

Our human value is something very special, precious, and dear to us. We do not want that value to be subjected to the type of value that a car or a rose has. It becomes a major problem for most of us when our value is put into the context (framework) of the value of mere transient materialistic things. It is both degrading and insulting to the value we have as human beings and reduces said value to nothing more than cosmic dust. We wish to be special, unique, and different from mere transient materialistic things. Most of us wish to be divine eternal souls who are loved by a God who get to live in eternal bliss.

When I say secular, I mean the whole idea that this is the only life we got and that once we die, that is it. Where the clash comes in here is the personal value we have as human beings with the insignificance we have in this universe. Imagine if there were a beautiful young child and I said to him/her:

"This child is a very beautiful person, BUT he/she will rot and decay away like trash because that is all he/she is (in the grand scheme of things). He/she is nothing more than insignificant trash in the grand scheme of things. We are all just biological organisms in the grand scheme of things only to have the precious value we have as human beings rot and decay away."

I see a major clash here in this quote. I cannot see how this child is a beautiful person when that is being clashed with the whole idea that we are insignificant trash in the grand scheme of things. The only way to create harmony between the claimed beauty of the child and the grand scheme of things would be to have this universe be one that is meant for us. A universe where we are souls who are more than our biology who get to live on happily ever after with a God who truly loves us.

This harmony is what would allow the claimed beauty of the child to finally be established as firm and sound beauty. Otherwise, there would be a clash which is no different than pinning up a positive against a negative. The positive and negative would cancel each other out. Therefore, you cannot have the positive value of a human being (beauty) when you have the negative (the idea that we are insignificant trash in this universe).

That's just how life works. If you pin up a positive force against a negative force, then they will both cancel each other out. Again, the child would be significant to those who love him/her in terms of personal value. But when that gets clashed with the idea that we have no value in the grand scheme of things and that we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, then that is when things cancel out.

When I talk about establishing harmony, I am not talking about any religion here because it is often the case that you are punished and go to hell according to some religions. I am instead talking about a truly loving God and a truly beautiful and eternal blissful afterlife. Therefore, I really hope there is such a God and afterlife. I really hope it is not some Christian based God or afterlife.

The Russian Nihilist movement was a Russian trend in the 1860s that rejected all authority.[13] Their name derives from the Latin nihil, meaning "nothing". After the assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881, the Nihilists gained a reputation throughout Europe as proponents of the use of violence for political change.[citation needed] The Nihilists expressed anger at what they described as the abusive nature of the Eastern Orthodox Church and of the tsarist monarchy, and at the domination of the Russian economy by the aristocracy. Although the term Nihilism was coined by the German theologian Friedrich Heinrich Jacobi (1743–1818), its widespread usage began with the 1862 novel Fathers and Sons by the Russian author Ivan Turgenev. The main character of the novel, Eugene Bazarov, who describes himself as a Nihilist, wants to educate the people. The "go to the people – be the people" campaign reached its height in the 1870s, during which underground groups such as the Circle of Tchaikovsky, the People's Will, and Land and Liberty formed. It became known as the Narodnik movement, whose members believed that the newly freed serfs were merely being sold into wage slavery in the onset of the Industrial Revolution, and that the middle and upper classes had effectively replaced landowners. The Russian state attempted to suppress the nihilist movement. In actions described by the Nihilists as propaganda of the deed many government officials were assassinated. In 1881 Alexander II was killed on the very day he had approved a proposal to call a representative assembly to consider new reforms.
I believe that the only time you see it is when many dangers sometimes coming from well "judges". People who presume that you have to play nihilism up.
Even if I take out names or locations I see that possible attack of foreigners on occasions. Why? Ask anyone they are all going to want to have family home when they grow or things, unless you incorporate nihilism into society then that can moved and be tricked. Ironically its not refusing authority it's that they take then what is yours and give it to others. I'm still learning. Also many were told lies in literature about who or what you are. They actually enforced nihilism at the beginning here with certain colonies.
Now paul is dismantled and people are very obsessed about their genetics and so forth. Even though it's foreigners that used the suggested idea of paul and peter in a VERY negative way.
Three dog mary stuff.
So they do a half split and a war.
Divide a country and wait for what the nihilism has destroyed but don't actually fight each other. Then provide passports for the swingers. New dreamers; But they still run off and abandon the heros to their new "dream".
And pilot's wife still doesn't get her request.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

now that's *****es. their idea.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Instead of constantly creating new topics like I have, I will instead keep what I am saying bound to their relevant topics. The only time I will create a new topic here on in would be if what I have to say is entirely new. But anyway, what I would like to say here is that If I believed in an eternal blissful afterlife, then that would be no different than a situation where I am all optimistic, happy, and loving towards myself and others knowing that I and everyone else are all going to get rich, get whatever we want, and have all the fancy thing we want. But upon discovering that this is not the case (discovering that an eternal blissful afterlife does not exist), then that would be no different than a situation where I give up on the whole concept of loving myself and loving others and where I would think it would be better off if we all just rotted and decayed away since all we are is poor trash and we don't all get to be the rich and wealthy individuals of our dreams.

I see the same things applying here as well. In other words, I see no value in human beings including myself and I would think it would be better off if we all just never existed in the first place since that is all we are anyway. We are all just biological material bound to rot and decay which no longer gives us human value (a superior value of dignity), but instead an inferior value that is nothing more than that of the type of value that mere transient materialistic things have that are bound to rot, decay, and break down such as a car, a bicycle, etc. It is our destiny and it is where we are all heading anyway. If all we are is biological beings here for a short while just to rot and decay away and we are not the eternal divine blissful beings that new age spiritual traditions make us out to be, then that, to me, takes away all human value and instead replaces it with the inferior value that mere transient materialistic things have.