InChrist
Free4ever
Read the post above.
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I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things
- Thread starter Madmogwai
- Start date
I hear you and am sympathetic. Ok....the beliefs of. Belief is ephemeral, shifty, a tool. It is a tool, but it can make things happen. It can create. It can create a new age for example, but please allow me to try again at answering your question.
So why did God create Satan? The problem of anger which leads to violence is a problem of central interest in all of the Pentateuch books from Genesis through to Deuteronomy. This is the 'Satan' actually, although the Hebrew term satan can refer to individuals. It carries the connotation of destructive anger. A person or a group can be a satan, meaning it is some kind of destructive enemy. I suppose you'd have to read the Hebrew language to know what are the limits to which the term could be employed.
In Christian scriptures when people get angry one way to describe it is to say that "Satan entered" them. This usage probably comes from Genesis 4:7 which says sin is crouching at Cain's door. This causes Cain to kill his own brother. Cain is not condemned for killing his brother, but rather he is exiled probably on the argument that he was out of his mind or lost control of his temper. Nevertheless many groups take this in a different sense, viewing Satan as a spirit being with the power to occasionally possess people, tempt them. Satan possesses Cain, causing him to become the first murderer.
Technically Satan preexists creation and is a problem that creation is supposed to resolve, however that is an abstract discussion and is not part of a surface reading of the story of Genesis.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
According to the Bible, Jesus was well aware of God being a sadistic psychopathic murderer because he said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28; NIV). Of course, if anyone knows how cruel the Christian God is, it would be his son. The vivid way Jesus depicted God, that doesn't sound like a loving, just, and merciful God to me. On the contrary, that sounds like a cruel, sadistic, psychopathic murderer.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Yeah, it's a pretty disturbing relationship. This is why I don't like reading Christian mythology literally. Figuratively, there's a lot of good stuff even if only from a literary perspective. As someone who enjoys mysticism, I get a lot of inspiration from it. But only as metaphor.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Let's say your human first born an innocent. Taught don't be indoctrinated by rich men they all lie.
Past history teaches you.
Rich men king's with science technology killed off nearly all life.
Then rich man poor king said now I've learnt I'll save you.
Same old same old rich man false claim.
As the church healers proved.
We're rich we'll keep you all safe. We know. Trust us.
Not likely. Same promise failed twice before. Seems like you're going for third strike all out now.
Past history teaches you.
Rich men king's with science technology killed off nearly all life.
Then rich man poor king said now I've learnt I'll save you.
Same old same old rich man false claim.
As the church healers proved.
We're rich we'll keep you all safe. We know. Trust us.
Not likely. Same promise failed twice before. Seems like you're going for third strike all out now.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
No, God didn't fail.
His intention, as it is with us, was to create beings who could worship him but were not forced to.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
It's still free will.
I'm free to ignore warnings and jump into deep water even if I can't swim.
Actions having consequences does not negate free will.
Brian2
Veteran Member
No we just offer the true meaning of Isa 45:7 and many refuse to accept it. IOWs Isa 45:7 is not an unequivocal statement that God creates evil, as varying translations show.
God remains the same and does not change His mind when nothing happens to cause Him to come to a different conclusion. When people repent God is always open to a change in what He was going to do before they repented. The change of mind/heart is based on good reason and is not because God flip flops from one thing to another for no reason (capricious).
What God has ordered as judge of the earth is not the same as moral guidance that we should follow.
With the incidents you cite I find it better to look for reasons that God ordered these things and in that day and age and I certainly don't think that God was teaching people to smash babies heads on rocks as I'm sure you also don't think God was teaching as a moral precept. It is amazing how far people can turn against the God of the Bible when they leave the Church, and leave reasoning about the Bible behind and decide that we should judge God as if He is a human being.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Says God, the one who created and owns it all and knows right and wrong and is worthy to judge us.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
I don’t see it as you do.
For instance, here, you are choosing how you view things. You are choosing to link certain things and not others; hence, you see certain patterns (and not others), you draw certain conclusions (and not others) and you act and live your life according to how you choose to see things.
I do the same but I choose differently.
We are not a higher power’s puppets.
We all get to choose what to pick out from all that there is to detect and thereby see and live (in the same world) in completely different ways.
In this sense; life becomes the experience of a chosen attitude.
Humbly,
Hermit
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
What’s your take on a perfectly designed algorithm, doing exactly what it was designed to do: learn, adapt and function accordingly?
Is its design even a question about ethics or does ethics only come into the equation once we experience the effects that algorithm has had on the bigger picture of things? It’s impact on what we think of others, what we care about, how we vote… that’s where ethics may enter; not before, right?
Ps. Algorithm here is meant as a parable, obviously.
Humbly,
Hermit
PureX
Veteran Member
I see no evidence of anyone being punished by God for anything. Do you?
There is no Biblical reason to think God ordered Satan to do evil things.
But, if God creates evil, I think it should be thought what it actually means. Evil is actually nothing, it is like emptiness or darkness, lack of good. When God creates evil, it can mean he creates free people who can choose to reject good and become evil. It does not mean God makes them do evil things, only that God gives the opportunity to reject Him.
I don't believe there is such person as Satan. But there are indeed evil beings (both human and non-human) in this universe. And these evil beings were created by the gods. But the gods are not responsible for their misdeeds because they were given free-will. The gods do protect you from the misdeeds of these evil beings when your karma allows such protection.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Men said confessed I conned humanity.
Told us they did.
Con scious.
Con...science.
These men said I'll pretend God created biology.
Yet in fact I'm not theorising for life's biology to exist. Con...tinuance.
I'm theorising for a new huge energy mass reaction. Future reaction.
As one he says isn't my life it's only god. Not anything else at all.
I name it god.
After my female body a human a real life mother and woman's womb owner life continuance was attacked hurt. I heard fathers voice tell you we need human females as men.
Pretty basic it's because you theoried against life existing. You said mother was Jesus's owner. Said mother a human.
You didn't say a God. As men don't believe any mother was a God. Men are he says...as.. I own. Greedy men the destroyer.
As not only do they claim I own all things on earth. He says he owns the power of the earth. Man virtually says why I'm a God. As if yes I'm body owner.
All in his known sick mind. A theists human history back in time is to greedy rich men. Who don't thesis two humans had sex I'm born and why I exist. Don't theory about life.
Claiming as a human background its radiation position one and not life.
In legal life is position one.
So science says I claim god is energy in mass.
Yet all one types are in my way. As one isn't gods power one is sealed coldest.
So he does minus one on the other side of a fake zero...so zero isn't really there. He infers it falsely.
The big con he's still using a subject not science about life...when all he wants is a huge reaction every one removed.
And yes told you so.
It's why living humans are conned as they live. The con isn't anywhere else.
He wants minus one means no highest sealed God. Anywhere.
Told us they did.
Con scious.
Con...science.
These men said I'll pretend God created biology.
Yet in fact I'm not theorising for life's biology to exist. Con...tinuance.
I'm theorising for a new huge energy mass reaction. Future reaction.
As one he says isn't my life it's only god. Not anything else at all.
I name it god.
After my female body a human a real life mother and woman's womb owner life continuance was attacked hurt. I heard fathers voice tell you we need human females as men.
Pretty basic it's because you theoried against life existing. You said mother was Jesus's owner. Said mother a human.
You didn't say a God. As men don't believe any mother was a God. Men are he says...as.. I own. Greedy men the destroyer.
As not only do they claim I own all things on earth. He says he owns the power of the earth. Man virtually says why I'm a God. As if yes I'm body owner.
All in his known sick mind. A theists human history back in time is to greedy rich men. Who don't thesis two humans had sex I'm born and why I exist. Don't theory about life.
Claiming as a human background its radiation position one and not life.
In legal life is position one.
So science says I claim god is energy in mass.
Yet all one types are in my way. As one isn't gods power one is sealed coldest.
So he does minus one on the other side of a fake zero...so zero isn't really there. He infers it falsely.
The big con he's still using a subject not science about life...when all he wants is a huge reaction every one removed.
And yes told you so.
It's why living humans are conned as they live. The con isn't anywhere else.
He wants minus one means no highest sealed God. Anywhere.
lukethethird
unknown member
Well, there are people that commit genocide in the name of God. Personally, I do sometimes fear the god in other peoples minds.
There are a lot of atrocities committed in the name of god. People need their beliefs as an excuse.
lukethethird
unknown member
Yes, and they need Satan as a scapegoat for all the killing and crimes committed in the name of God.
However, when you do a little research of the bible
Excluding plagues and the flood
And those 10 were at gods command
lukethethird
unknown member
There is plenty of evidence of punishment committed by the God in people's minds for many things.