I found this amusing Levit.18:22

[spiritually inclined]

On her radio show recently, Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two differentcrops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

 

[Super Universe]

It's always nice to see people with more common sense than the people who claim to represent God.

 

[kateyes]

It's always nice to see people with more common sense than the people who claim to represent God.

DITTO!

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

Love it.

 

[Haydaman]

Hilarious.

 

[*Paul*]

I suppose it would be funny if the christian position hinged on that verse.

 

[Tigress]

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

You can't own Canadians because Canadians own you, and the Mexicans.

I suppose it would be funny if the christian position hinged on that verse.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." - 1 Corinthians 6:9

The nice thing about this verse is that it's not so clear-cut. This particular use of effeminate can mean:

1. of a catamite; a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
2. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
3. of a male prostitute

'Abusers of themselves with mankind' is a bit stickier, but again, it leaves room, as the general accepted meaning is: 'one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual.' The leg-up lies in sodomite, which of course refers back to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah-the story itself being open to debate. Gang rape anyone?

So the question remains: Is Corinthians referring to homosexuals? Maybe, perhaps definitely, but who really knows?

 

[MoonWater]

Very amusing. Did the guy actually send this letter to her? If he did any idea what her reaction was?

 

[Prometheus]

Recently?

This is at least three years old, dudes.

 

[*Paul*]

You can't own Canadians because Canadians own you, and the Mexicans.



"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." - 1 Corinthians 6:9

The nice thing about this verse is that it's not so clear-cut. This particular use of effeminate can mean:

1. of a catamite; a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
2. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
3. of a male prostitute

'Abusers of themselves with mankind' is a bit stickier, but again, it leaves room, as the general accepted meaning is: 'one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual.' The leg-up lies in sodomite, which of course refers back to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah-the story itself being open to debate. Gang rape anyone?

So the question remains: Is Corinthians referring to homosexuals? Maybe, perhaps definitely, but who really knows?

I don't believe that effimate is reffering to homosexuals. Romans 1 is clear cut.

 

[Random]

That was a good reply, well thought out.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Romans 1 is clear cut.

Some people believe that Romans 1 is not as clear cut as you might think, so if you're interested, you can google it. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe they're right. But it's an idea to research. I, on the other hand, have no inclination to study it at this time -- maybe later. I'm not a fundamentalist anyway.

James

 

[Ronald]

I don't believe that effimate is reffering to homosexuals. Romans 1 is clear cut.

Contrary to your thoughts on Romans 1, the subject is not homosexuality, but ungodliness, which ends up at homosexuality!
Giving up God in favor of idol worship came first, then God gives them up to dishonor their bodies!
Half right means that the other half, is wrong!
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: (Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.)
No where do you find instructions to hate your enemies or to persecute those who do not share your views! On the contrary you are to love your neighbor as yourself.
The first chapter of Romans makes it quite clear, that Godliness is the course that is clearly defined. God is love.


Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai
Blessed be he who enters in the name of the LORD!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." - 1 Corinthians 6:9

The nice thing about this verse is that it's not so clear-cut. This particular use of effeminate can mean:

1. of a catamite; a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
2. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
3. of a male prostitute

'Abusers of themselves with mankind' is a bit stickier, but again, it leaves room, as the general accepted meaning is: 'one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual.' The leg-up lies in sodomite, which of course refers back to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah-the story itself being open to debate. Gang rape anyone?

So the question remains: Is Corinthians referring to homosexuals? Maybe, perhaps definitely, but who really knows?

Actually, it seems it's not, if you go back to the original Greek text. According to this source, the term that's translated "abusers of themselves with mankind" is arsenokoites, which apparently actually means "people who engage in economic exploitation by means of sex", and the term that's translated as "effeminate" is malakos, which literally means "soft", but is normally used as a term meaning "vain", "lazy" or "cowardly".

I think it would be more accurate to replace "nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." with "nor vain people, nor gold-diggers...".

 

[Sola*5]

Contrary to your thoughts on Romans 1, the subject is not homosexuality, but ungodliness, which ends up at homosexuality!
Giving up God in favor of idol worship came first, then God gives them up to dishonor their bodies!
Half right means that the other half, is wrong!
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: (Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.)
No where do you find instructions to hate your enemies or to persecute those who do not share your views! On the contrary you are to love your neighbor as yourself.
The first chapter of Romans makes it quite clear, that Godliness is the course that is clearly defined. God is love.


Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai
Blessed be he who enters in the name of the LORD!

I don't think PAul said that the subject of Romans 1 was homosexuality he just said it was clear cut i.e that it is wrong, there can be no arguements there, it just makes your response to what he wrote a bit odd, or were you just looking for the chance to say your piece. Loving your neighbour as yourself does not mean ignoring their sin, you cannot profess Christ and practice homsexuality, you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils and can't wear mixed linen clothing for the christian it is it is sheeps wool (Christs righteousness), just make sure you are not guilty of the same thing.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Straight from an older post of mine...

On her radio show recently, Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow them.

The problem with James Kaufman (the author) is very simple. He is ignorant and he tries to make fun of something that he doesn't obviously have any clue about. For him to have any clue about the Torah commandments, he would first have need to study it, as well as the very large body of Jewish law interpreting the Torah commandments. Example: the Talmud and commentaries. However, if I were to make a guess about Mr. Kaufman, I would guess that he doesn't even read hebrew nor Aramaic which he would need to know in order to read the Talmud. Thus, Mr. Kaufman would do better to start learning the Hebew alphabet before asking idiotic questions. Nevertheless, here are the answers (not my own) to them. They contain some hebrew terms, which any serious student of Torah laws would know. I assume neither Mr. Kaufman nor spiritually inclined is familiar with those terms, but I really don't feel like translating them or explaining them, since it would be a waste of my time anyway.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

If you are Jewish, you shouldn't be offering any sacrifices outside of the Beth Hamikdash (Temple); so the question doesn't get to the real root of the problem. Otherwise, you're a Ben Noach and fully entitled to offer free will offerings anywhere within reason. In such a case, perhaps a mutually pleasant arrangement could be made between the two of you in a civil, and law-abiding manner.

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

Selling people into slavery was put under gezerah (decree) at least in the times of Rabbi Yosef Caro who's Shulchan Aruch makes the ownership of slaves halachically impossible. The question, though well intendtioned, is today meaningless. Which you would know, if you had any minimal education about the Torah.

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Perhaps the laws of tacharat hamishpacha, laws of family purity; which observant Jews have observed for at least 3,314 years, would help here. That is, of course, if you're Jewish. But if you're not Jewish then the law in question does not apply to you and so the question becomes meaningless.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

For the same reason that you can't sell your daughter as a slave. Because a gezerah exists on slavehood.

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

First off, we have to know if you're neighbour's Jewish. If he is, there could be a problem. If he isn't, then his not keeping Shabbat is actually in compliance with Torah which forbids Gentiles from keeping the Sabbath. However, assuming that your neighbour was indeed born to a Jewish mother, Tractate Shabbat clearly states what process must happen before a person who is desecrating the Sabbath is to be punished for the desecration. First, the witness must be informed that what they are doing is an act of melocha [scecific act prohibited to be performed on the Sabbath], they must then continue to perform the act. Then, they must be brought to the attention of the Sanhedrin, etc. Since there is no Sanhedrin at this time, you cannot and should not do anything beyond reminding them that their actions are an act of creative work prohibited on the Sabbath.

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

An abomination is an abomination is an abomination. Refer to the Jewish dietary laws which do not allow the consumption of shellfish. Then look up the laws of family purity (if you haven't already [refer #3]) and see that homosexual behaviour is equally prohibited and is equally 'not done.'

Of course, as far as Gentiles are concerned, they are not prohibited from eating shellfish. They are, however, prohibited from engaging in homosexual activity, as laid down in the Sheva Mitsvoth B'nei Noach [Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noach], affirmed in TB Sanhedrin 59b and ratified as halacha in the Mishne Torah: Hilchot Melachim u'Milchamoteichem 9:7.

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Why don't you try reading Leviticus 21:20, and the verses surrounding it, and answer this one for yourself. Keep in mind, that those verses only apply to Kohanim (Priestly tribes - descendants of Aaron). So unless you are a descendant of Aaron, there is really no wiggle room for you.

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

They should not die, but should regret their earlier mistake and let their hair grow. That is, of course, if they're Jewish. But if they're not Jewish then they have no reason to 'not shave the hair around their temples.'

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

You don't have to wear gloves: here's why: if you're a Gentile, then the laws of impurity do not apply to you at all. If you're Jewish, then if you touch pig's carcass, then all that will happen is that you'll have to wait until sunset, bathe, and then you're clean again to enter the Temple. But since the Temple isn't standing, it's a bit academic.

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two differentcrops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Before answering the first point, we must know: (1) Is your uncle Jewish? and (2) Is your uncle's farm in the Land of Israel? If the answer to (1) and (2) are both 'yes' then there is indeed a problem. In such a case, your uncle should (1) regret his previous mistakes and (2) till up the zerayah [seeds] (TB Zerayim]. Otherwise, the prohibition of kilayim does not apply to your uncle, his farm, or his produce. As for the wife's garment, there's no halachic problem with it on the sounds of it. The Torah prohibition of shatnez applies only to garments made from material of different biological kingdoms. For example, wool [animal] and linen [plant.] Cotton and polyester is not a problem. Cursing and blaspheming a lot can be equally remedied by the farmer regretting his past deed, and stopping. Plain and simple.

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I know you’re trying to be funny. Next time, though, try to find some questions that haven’t been answered in three thousand years.

 

[sojourner]

They are, however, prohibited from engaging in homosexual activity, as laid down in the Sheva Mitsvoth B'nei Noach [Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noach], affirmed in TB Sanhedrin 59b and ratified as halacha in the Mishne Torah: Hilchot Melachim u'Milchamoteichem 9:7.

How can Torah be in any way applied to Gentiles??? I'm a Gentile. If I want to eat pork, I'm going to do it, because Torah does not apply to me. If I'm Gentile and gay, Torah also does not apply to me, even if it claims to. Unless I live in a country where civil law upholds the authority of Torah on all its citizens.
Maybe the Radio Nazi should move from the US to such a country, where she can swing a dead cat and hit any number of people upon whom she can legitimately unleash her venom.

 

[Deut 13:1]

I guess it's nice to see that spiritually_inclined, Super Universe, KatEyes, Alifetimetowaitfor and others that suffer from the one-word post syndrome suddenly lost their tounge.

Moving on...

How can Torah be in any way applied to Gentiles??? I'm a Gentile. If I want to eat pork, I'm going to do it, because Torah does not apply to me. If I'm Gentile and gay, Torah also does not apply to me, even if it claims to. Unless I
live in a country where civil law upholds the authority of Torah on all its citizens.

The Noahide code was given to Noah after the flood, they are for all mankind. The 613 mitzvot were given to Moses and the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, not to the proud gentiles like yourself.

Maybe the Radio Nazi should move from the US to such a country, where she can swing a dead cat and hit any number of people upon whom she can legitimately unleash her venom.

Or maybe you should move to a country where the government controls what you hear, who you hear, and when you hear it. I think you'll like that more then having the option to listen to what you want, who you want, and when you want it.

 

[ayani]

awesome OP.

 

[Wandered Off]

The Noahide code was given to Noah after the flood, they are for all mankind.

I wonder how many other codes I'm subject to without knowing it. I could be in some serious trouble, depending on how restrictive the various gods are.