I got sick of being an atheist

[ChristineM]

To know no Christian has evidence, a person would have to somehow know all events on Earth through centuries, and also know others' experience exhaustively (read minds).

See the trouble in attempting to assert either one (yourself, or anyone here asserting such)? Of course, no one knows all events throughout all of history, unless they literally are God, with that power.

If any christian or other had evidence of god the first thing is automatically getting entered in the best buddy section of every religious leader.

Next would come the constant rounds of interview and speaking requests.

I see the Nobel peace prize in there too.

At a stroke atheism would necessarily be abandoned

And faith in god would be lost to knowledge.

Never happened yet but i am open to the possibility, thought i wont be holding my breath in anticipation.

 

[Fool]

So I tried atheism, and found that it didn't work out for me, so I'm back to faith again and realize how much I appreciate Christianity and Christian culture. It's the best, and I love it.

Glory be to God the highest. And peace to his people on earth!

there are those that identify as christian atheist

 

[ChristineM]

You might want to talk to an atheist.

You'd learn something.
Tom

I doubt it

 

[Brickjectivity]

But is their theology ontologically true?
Christians can be good or bad. So can atheists. What does the behavior of believers have to do with the objective truth of their beliefs?

A religion is an assertion of ontological truth, not a social club. An ethos or community can be generated from a particular "truth" but the community is not the religion. The theology is the religion.

I agree about the difference between someone who believes something and someone who lives like it. The argument seems strong that people like to believe things as long as it doesn't require us to change our behavior much. People like beliefs which give compliments to our way of life. A philosopher likes a religion which praises philosophers.

I am confused by the use of the term ontological there. It is the "branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of being?" So you're suggesting that religions can be sorted by how they treat this topic. Do you believe that this controls the behavior and culture of the religious, too?

 

[halbhh]

If any christian or other had evidence of god the first thing is automatically getting entered in the best buddy section of every religious leader.

.

Something I'd avoid. As would the majority of people, having better things to do than become a prop for a 'religious leader'.


Edit: post shortened to focus on key thing -->

And faith in god would be lost to knowledge.

Bingo!

That's exactly what I was trying to communicate to you just above. --> Easy clear proof evidence that a non believer could easily examine (like an inert object or direct event) cannot be available ever, (until it's too late), because God explicitly (in clear wording in scriptures) requires faith first.

Make sense? You should ask questions about this in particular if it doesn't make sense as I've written about it. It's the key part of this whole thing here you are addressing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I hope it continues to provide you with positive life results. I agree that atheism is mostly just a lot tiring egocentric gibberish. I can accept that someone would choose to simply ignore the theistic proposition as being personally unnecessary. That's fine. Maybe they'll need it and choose to adopt it in the future, and maybe they won't. Again, this is perfectly reasonable. It's always available to them if they find the need or desire for it.

But all this self-righteous blather and absurdly illogical "logic" claiming out of one side of their face that no gods exist because there's no evidence while claiming to be agnostics out the other, is just insulting and exhausting. It's just a lot of fear and ago-driven idiocy. Much the same as we would find in any fundamentalist religious cult. Baseless pretense masquerading as 'knowledge'.

How does not believing god exists lead to ego-driven self-identity and idiocy?

 

[ChristineM]

Something I'd avoid. As would the majority of people, having better things to do than become a prop for a 'religious leader'.

Evidence of a god would be the biggest event ever. To say such evidence would be hidden does not really represent human nature

Ok that....I won't argue, but I'm sure that would not be so. Are we talking about the same thing?

We are talking evidence. Atheism is based on complete lack of evidence. If evidence was presented and shown to be valid the basis of atheism disappears. There would no doubt be some who say "i dont believe it" that does not discount the fact of the evidence.

That's exactly what I was trying to communicate to you just above. --> Easy evidence that you could easily examine cannot be available ever, (until it's too late), because God explicitly (in clear wording in scriptures) requires faith first. Make sense? You should ask questions about this in particular if it doesn't make sense as I've written about it. It's the key part of this whole thing here you are addressing.

So no evidence, thats what i was saying. For you to say until to late requires that evidence is provided to validate this claim

As far as i am aware there are no verses in any scripture attributed to a god. People make the claim on gods word because some bronze age scribe made an unevidenced, unverifiable claim

 

[ChristineM]

I hope it continues to provide you with positive life results. I agree that atheism is mostly just a lot tiring egocentric gibberish. I can accept that someone would choose to simply ignore the theistic proposition as being personally unnecessary. That's fine. Maybe they'll need it and choose to adopt it in the future, and maybe they won't. Again, this is perfectly reasonable. It's always available to them if they find the need or desire for it.

But all this self-righteous blather and absurdly illogical "logic" claiming out of one side of their face that no gods exist because there's no evidence while claiming to be agnostics out the other, is just insulting and exhausting. It's just a lot of fear and ago-driven idiocy. Much the same as we would find in any fundamentalist religious cult. Baseless pretense masquerading as 'knowledge'.

Oh wow, the projection, the projection, it burns

 

[ChristineM]

Edit: post shortened to focus on key thing -->

Unedited post answered

 

[PureX]

You might want to talk to an atheist.

You'd learn something.
Tom

You might want to follow some of the many conversations I have on here with 'atheists'. And see for yourself how wildly biased, confused, and disingenuous most of them really are. I feel bad for them, for the same reason I feel bad for the fundamentally religious. They both blindly and truly believe in their own mythologized version of reality and have completely thrown away the ability to acknowledge it.

 

[Secret Chief]

They don't provide the answer to the ultimate question about
life, the universe, & everything

I think @sun rise may have started a thread on that.

 

[PureX]

How does not believing god exists lead to ego-driven self-identity and idiocy?

It doesn't. It's the attempted defense of that belief (or rather lack of it) that drives the gibberish and doublespeak.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So I tried atheism, and found that it didn't work out for me, so I'm back to faith again and realize how much I appreciate Christianity and Christian culture. It's the best, and I love it.

Glory be to God the highest. And peace to his people on earth!

... that, and another question. What are your feelings about jesus and how did you get to the point that he saved you (I appreciate the christian experience, but to actually find myself back in christianity, it would be more about christ rather than community, no?)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It doesn't. It's the attempted defense of that belief (or rather lack of it) that drives the gibberish and doublespeak.

When I hear "atheism this or that" as a negative, I automatically think why are people saying disbelief in god is negative when they are actually talking about atheists people rather than atheism.

Have you encountered atheists who defend their views on life and challenge others in a less gibberish and doublespeak way?

Intelligent conversations and proper debate?

 

[halbhh]

Evidence of a god would be the biggest event ever. To say such evidence would be hidden does not really represent human nature



We are talking evidence. Atheism is based on complete lack of evidence. If evidence was presented and shown to be valid the basis of atheism disappears. There would no doubt be some who say "i dont believe it" that does not discount the fact of the evidence.



So no evidence, thats what i was saying. For you to say until to late requires that evidence is provided to validate this claim

As far as i am aware there are no verses in any scripture attributed to a god. People make the claim on gods word because some bronze age scribe made an unevidenced, unverifiable claim

Suppose hiking alone you fell off a high cliff, and prayed while falling in mid air, and then woke up totally unharmed without even any bruises. You'd have 'evidence' of a certain kind: a real event, as real as anything ever is.... but would anyone else believe you?

It would not be 'evidence' of the kind a skeptic could examine or confirm or disprove -- it would not be 'evidence that can be examined independently' -- since they'd have only your own word it happened.

Make sense?

Do you think all other humans should totally refuse to believe anything you say happened to you that they cannot easily verify? I think that's an interesting question!

My own attitude about such reports from other people is to neither believe nor disbelieve them per se.

Instead, something better: if sufficiently interesting, I would try to do the radical step of altering my life to try out what they testify works, and find out if there is something to it. If someone claims a certain practice results X in Y, and Y is interesting, then I'll try to do X and find out. To me, personally, this is very superior to merely not knowing. I like to find out.

 

[ChristineM]

Suppose hiking alone you fell off a high cliff, and prayed while falling in mid air, and then woke up totally unharmed without even any bruises. You'd have 'evidence' of a certain kind: a real event, as real as anything ever is.... but would

You would have the word of someone that they fell and were unharmed. It it were witnessed you would have evidence.

It would not be 'evidence' of the kind a skeptic could examine or confirm or disprove -- it would not be 'evidence that can be examined independently' -- since they'd have only your own word it happened.

It would not be evidence.

Do you think all other humans should totally refuse to believe anything you say happened to you that they cannot easily verify? I think that's an interesting question!

I personally do not lie but i know most humans do to some extent. Without verification all you have is hearsay

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Atheism has a culture? What sort of atheists were you hanging out with?

Well, these have:
Home | American Atheists

Our Vision | American Atheists

Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited.

They do a lot more that just have no beliefs in Gods.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But is their theology ontologically true?
Christians can be good or bad. So can atheists. What does the behavior of believers have to do with the objective truth of their beliefs?

A religion is an assertion of ontological truth, not a social club. An ethos or community can be generated from a particular "truth" but the community is not the religion. The theology is the religion.

Since this is in a debate section, let us play. What is objective truth?
Do you believe in any positive metaphysics and ontology?

 

[Nakosis]

Being angry or happy has an element of choice.
Believing or disbelieving lacks that (for me).

I think I could go back to believing in something. I started in enough new religions I think I know how to coerce my subconscious mind to feel belief is rational.

You immerse yourself in it as fully as possible. Go to meeting. Listen to the appropriate music. Hang with supportive people. Put picture up. Make little shrines. Do the proper rituals/prayers. Routine and immersion can program your subconscious mind to where you start feeling belief is reasonable. So you can't consciously choose but I believe you can get your subconscious mind to a state where belief starts to seem more reasonable.

It worked going from one belief to the next. Haven't really tried from being an atheist but I suspect we can indirectly get the subconscious mind onboard.

I think this is what deprogramming tries to do. Just you have other folks trying to reprogram your subconscious mind instead of doing it yourself..

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But is their theology ontologically true?
Christians can be good or bad. So can atheists. What does the behavior of believers have to do with the objective truth of their beliefs?

A religion is an assertion of ontological truth, not a social club. An ethos or community can be generated from a particular "truth" but the community is not the religion. The theology is the religion.

Take 2:
Here is another version of religion:

Religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence. It is also commonly regarded as consisting of the way people deal with ultimate concerns about their lives and their fate after death. In many traditions, this relation and these concerns are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitude toward gods or spirits; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world. In many religions, texts are deemed to have scriptural status, and people are esteemed to be invested with spiritual or moral authority. Believers and worshippers participate in and are often enjoined to perform devotional or contemplative practices such as prayer, meditation, or particular rituals. Worship, moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are among the constituent elements of the religious life.
religion | Definition, Types, & List of Religions

I am religious and I hold no ontological truth.