I have a question about use of niqab and corona face mask.

[ChristineM]

Maybe it's because it's religious and some people, rather than being just atheists, are anti-religion. Some people are also against order and "traditions" (anything that wasn't made up during the last 100 years). If it was about her being forced to wear it, why would he be bothering her?

We have been here before, you have been unable to show where it is stated in the Qur'an that women must cover their faces. It is not a religious requirement.

It is a personal preference foe some muslim moment, it is a requirement dictated by the husband for other muslim women

 

[Spirit of Light]

Maybe it's because it's religious and some people, rather than being just atheists, are anti-religion. Some people are also against order and "traditions" (anything that wasn't made up during the last 100 years). If it was about her being forced to wear it, why would he be bothering her?

I think the reason was he do not like changes, or he could be afraid of the "unknown"
I come to like the way Islam teaches modesty. And I come to dislike the extremists.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, that may work - but you do not appreciate my ineptitude wearing masks - combined with glasses which are inevitably sun glasses at this time of year

Of course that could make it difficult for someone to see your smiling eyes but you can see others

 

[Spirit of Light]

First of all.... let me start by saying that the dude was in the wrong there. He had no business doing that.


However................
Comparing yourself with that woman is not appropriate either.

Before / after the corona crisis, you won't sit there covered up. She will.
When you are asked to remove your mask for identification purposes, you will. She'll likely refuse.
When you have to have your picture taken for your passport, you'll remove the mask. She'll likely refuse or at least protest.


Something that I'ld worry about more though, in this particular instance... is if she was wearing a proper face-mask underneath her niqaab? Because proper face-mask are made of specific material meant specifically for protection against biological agents. Fabric used for clothing does NOT provide that protection. If she was infected and not wearing a proper mask underneath, then she was spreading her germs all over the bus and thus being a biohazard to everybody there.

I will not stop wearing face mask when corona virus is "gone" because I found that it improved my general health when I am outdoors.
No I will not remove my mask during corona virus times, even if police ask me too. And yes they wear mask them self.
When I take the new photo for my passport I will be alone in the booth so yes I can remove my mask. Probably she can too.

I have respect for her privacy so I did not ask her if she wore a mask under her niqab. But saw the rest of her family do. So yes maybe she did too.

 

[ChristineM]

Jewish and christian women use to do the same. Although not in a niqaab, but definatly a scarf type thing covering the hear. Some still do. Like in Greece. Many older women still wear something similar.

View attachment 42134

I didn't even need to look hard. I just googled "old greek woman".

They still do here in France, there are not many older women who visit a church without head covering, either a scarf or their best Sunday hat

 

[Mock Turtle]

Maybe they fear the unknown?

No - as I described - many just don't want what they are/were familiar with to just vanish overnight - which is often what happens when another culture tends to take over a neighborhood. One might like to look at the response of the countries from where the newcomers have come from to such an 'invasion' - if such was reversed. Why is it that so many Western countries are so appealing to others when often they just don't share what would be considered the norm in such countries?

Some surveys and polls of Muslims seems to indicate a sizeable number not agreeing with certain values of the countries they migrate to but they still go. I've noticed the differences between the areas where niqabs/burqas are common and those where they are not - with the same numbers of Muslims - and to me it seems that the latter are integrating and causing no issues, so it seems to me that it is the more fundamentalist-minded Muslims who are causing issues.

Hence the reaction so often.

 

[ChristineM]

I'd explain something here, but I noticed it isn't allowed to talk about the masks here anymore with any logic. Suffice to say, the niqab might actually do about the same job the average mask would.

The average mask is 3 layers of material but yes, a niqab will help reduce the spread of c19,

 

[Spirit of Light]

No - as I described - many just don't want what they are/were familiar with to just vanish overnight - which is often what happens when another culture tends to take over a neighborhood. One might like to look at the response of the countries from where the newcomers have come from to such an 'invasion'. Why is it that so many Western countries are so appealing to others when often they just don't share what would be considered the norm in such countries?

Some surveys and polls of Muslims seems to indicate a sizeable number not agreeing with certain values of the countries they migrate to but they still go. I've noticed the differences between the areas where niqabs/burqas are common and those where they are not - with the same numbers of Muslims - and to me it seems that the latter are integrating and causing no issues, so it seems to me that it is the more fundamentalist-minded Muslims who are causing issues.

Hence the reaction so often.

I do agree that this fundamentalists do damage not only to western world, but to them self too. And to other Muslims.
But the many very peaceful Muslims who are just as nice as anybody else. Those in my eyes are good people and would easily become my friends.

If we turn it the other way. How would the Muslims feel when our western leaders " invade" their country and trying to enforce western culture in their country? Very similar to how western people do here. With fear and worries.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

Both are fine. Don't assume that the xenophobic bigot's actions were justified.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I do agree that this fundamentalists do damage not only to western world, but to them self too. And to other Muslims.
But the many very peaceful Muslims who are just as nice as anybody else. Those in my eyes are good people and would easily become my friends.

If we turn it the other way. How would the Muslims feel when our western leaders " invade" their country and trying to enforce western culture in their country? Very similar to how western people do here. With fear and worries.

I agree entirely about how Muslims might be perceived when they are likely to be just as normal and nice as most others. I have no issues with most people, as I know that we all generally share the same values despite any particular beliefs. I have travelled sufficiently to know that people are basically the same despite their cultures and/or beliefs so I try to treat all much the same until something indicates otherwise. And of course Muslims (the majority) have no input to what some (the extremists, terrorists, or whatever) might do to affect how all Muslims might be perceived. But unfortunately we do have a large number who do apparently base their opinions on appearances rather than factual evidence.

And your last point of course is quite valid.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If we turn it the other way. How would the Muslims feel when our western leaders " invade" their country and trying to enforce western culture in their country? Very similar to how western people do here. With fear and worries.

Unless they're tourists, for any Muslim on a bus in Norway, "their country" is almost certainly Norway.

 

[firedragon]

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

I’m not sure if you can claim people are not, but it’s a cognitive bias.

 

[Revoltingest]

Since we have had to wear masks I have come to realise the down side of face coverings.
On numerous occasions I have pleasure with strangers actions by saying thank you and smiling; but the smile is now wasted. I may start snarling as I say thank you. Facial expressions are so important to Westerners.

We don't see smiles on RF, & we manage our affairs
as well or better than the general public (IMO).

 

[Spirit of Light]

Unless they're tourists, for any Muslim on a bus in Norway, "their country" is almost certainly Norway.

Yes I think mostly the Muslims I meet here are living here, but sometimes they get visit from their birth country ( for those who were not born in Norway).

 

[Spirit of Light]

I’m not sure if you can claim people are not, but it’s a cognitive bias.

What/who are cognitive bias? The Norwegian man or the Muslim woman?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well of course I don't agree with any such interactions, and I would never do so, but we can't put it simply down to fear of another culture.

Often it is about the erosion of an existing culture/ways of life and such, and one can see examples of this in many cities (especially in the UK and no doubt in many parts of Europe), where the population has shifted over a few decades - sometimes to become more diverse (and usually all the better for such) but often to see an existing culture replaced by, to others, a foreign one - and the niqab/burqa is often seen as a symbol of such. That is, the newcomers not integrating but just taking over. Why wouldn't the original inhabitants feel a little aggrieved about losing what they might have grown up with?

We have that in part in the states. I notice burqas are a symbol but another bigger concern these days is foreign language/culture. There are a lot of Americans that don't like "Spanish foreigners" so if one has a strong accent and/or doesn't speak English fluently, they get a hard end of needing to go back where they belong.

As for wearing masks, it could be similar to that in these regards. But in this case, their hate is justified by "they are harming others if they don't obey authority (sounds familiar)" and feel the need to intervene in some else's personal affairs. It could be fear as well but toppled by (going by what @Mock Turtle says [though I'm not a European), the confrontation could be fear of loosing one's culture... because of immigration-as in the States.

It's sad. @Amanaki I think you were just "in the way." It doesn't sound like it has to do with masks just probably that guys ignorance and bias with Muslim Culture. He'd probably do the same if she wore her burqa across her face without needing a mask. Who knows.

 

[Spirit of Light]

We have that in part in the states. I notice burqas are a symbol but another bigger concern these days is foreign language/culture. There are a lot of Americans that don't like "Spanish foreigners" so if one has a strong accent and/or doesn't speak English fluently, they get a hard end of needing to go back where they belong.

As for wearing masks, it could be similar to that in these regards. But in this case, their hate is justified by "they are harming others if they don't obey authority (sounds familiar)" and feel the need to intervene in some else's personal affairs. It could be fear as well but toppled by (going by what @Mock Turtle says [though I'm not a European), the confrontation could be fear of loosing one's culture... because of immigration-as in the States.

It's sad. @Amanaki I think you were just "in the way." It doesn't sound like it has to do with masks just probably that guys ignorance and bias with Muslim Culture. He'd probably do the same if she wore her burqa across her face without needing a mask. Who knows.

Yes I probably was just a part of the situation as soon I acted out toward him. But I think it is important to ask questions to the bullies to get them to think about their action.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes I probably was just a part of the situation as soon I acted out toward him. But I think it is important to ask questions to the bullies to get them to think about their action.

True. Not disagreeing with that. Just his actions may be justified by his bias and ignorance and you just happen to be in his path. I don't think it was about the masks or he would probably have challenged you as well.

I'd just be careful. It depends on the area. I notice we're having a lot of angry protests here in the States about wearing masks and it gets dangerous. Thankfully, I haven't heard such a thing in Virginia but I could be wrong. Mostly people just give you the look if you're not wearing your mask if you're in the parking lot no where near people. Just people. It's great to question just be careful with the intervention.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I just got confirmed by my friend that Muslim females who wear niqab do remove it when they take photo for official documents like passport, ID card and so on. So that is not a problem either

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'd explain something here, but I noticed it isn't allowed to talk about the masks here anymore with any logic.

Huh?

Suffice to say, the niqab might actually do about the same job the average mask would.

It most definatly does not.