Do you read no one or nothing there?
I read "nothing" there which I understand includes words.
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I have another question for YOU to ignore
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
I read "nothing" there which I understand includes words.
I will be awful surprised if you ever come back to say that it should read to be disciples Matthew 28:19.
I have been doing this for about five years and nobody yet has agreed with what is actually written there.
I suppose they wouldn't know what to do about it.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Im ageeeing with you.
I see this a lot. It appears that you are saying it will be ok for you to judge me, but not ok for me to prejudge you.
It is called having two standards. I try not to do that.
Prejudging people opens the door for people to judge you... a simple"thanks" would have been good enough.
Ah! So are you saying that it matters not if it say be disciples or make disciples?
It certainly matters to all of them who are being made disciple per the order of God!
Please quote where I have judge you? I would be happy to ask forgiveness.
I'm not talking about you!. THEY have already proved it to me.
You didn't, but you implied that you could,
"I think there was no need to prejudge who is making mental gymnastics. It opens the door for people* to judge you. A simple "thanks" would have been good enough."
*You.
They actually do mental gymnastics. THEY say the verb disciples means to be making disciples. They have said it what seems a hundred times.
I re-read what I said and can't figure out where it implies that I can judge you but you can't judge me.
My position is simply scriptural "In the measure that you judge, you shall be judged". That applies equally to you as WELL as to me. Cause and effect. Forgive and it is forgiven you, be friendly and you shall have friends, give and it shall be given... seems to be consistent. "God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, so shall he reap".
Strong's Concordance
mathéteuó: to be a disciple, to make a disciple
Original Word: μαθητεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mathéteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (math-ayt-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I make disciples, make into disciples
Definition: I make a disciple of, train in discipleship; pass: I am trained, discipled, instructed.
Ok...
Original Word Word Origin
maqhteuvw from (3101)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Matheteuo 4:461,552
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
math-ayt-yoo'-o Verb
Definition
- to be a disciple of one
- to follow his precepts and instructions
- to make a disciple
- to teach, instruct
(John Gill) And teach all nations;
Jews and Gentiles, first the one, and then the other, the doctrines of the Gospel, and the ordinances of it; whatever they had learned from Christ, or were ordered by him, or "disciple all nations": make them disciples by teaching them; or, as the Persic version, by way of explanation, adds, "bring them to my religion and faith": not that they were able to do this of themselves, but they were to teach men externally, or outwardly minister the word, whilst the Spirit of God internally applied it, and taught, and made men true disciples of Christ: and they are such, who have learned to know themselves, their sin, and lost estate by nature; to deny themselves, both sinful and righteous self; who have learnt to know Christ, and the way of righteousness, peace, pardon, life, and salvation by him; and who are taught and enabled to part with all for Christ, and to bear all for his sake, and to believe in him, and give up themselves to him, and follow him whithersoever he goes:
In the King James Version it is used as the following:
Used as instructed Matt 13:52 Then said he unto them,Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Used as disciple Matt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Used as teach Matt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Used as teach Acts 1421 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconic, and Antioch,
Doesn't the word "make" cause "disciple" to still an action be virtue of what precedes? (make)
But... where do you want to go from here. (Since I am not sure what your point is since "make" disciples and action effort as in teach or be instructed.)
Did you believe I didn't know those? What you have done I call mental gymnastics.
Are you also trusting that to be a disciple which is a person who is learning from a master and making disciples which means getting others to learn from the master mean the same? Are you fully aware of these?
Jonathan said to his young armor-bearer, "Come, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised men. Perhaps the LORD will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the LORD from saving, whether by many or by few."
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Judges 7:4
Then the LORD said to Gideon, "The people are still too many; bring them down to the water and I will test them for you there. Therefore it shall be that he of whom I say to you, 'This one shall go with you,' he shall go with you; but everyone of whom I say to you, 'This one shall not go with you,' he shall not go."
Jeremiah 9: 23This is what the LORD says: "Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
24but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD.
Luke 12:32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.
If it is God's will that Jesus' disciples make more and more and more disciples, then why is it written that his flock be little?
Also, please know the real meaning of the word disciple. It means to be taught BY ONE.
They say that to be a disciple teaching others means that the others become disciples by the teaching of WHOM? YOU? Or Jesus?
So, why can't you ALL trust that Matthew 28:19 was changed? And, not by me? LOL
Matthew 19:6 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
But Matthew 28:19 is saying that it is possible for US to make another person believe in and be taught by Jesus.
But Matthew 28:19 is saying that it is possible for US to make another person believe in and be taught by Jesus.
If, like you all say, it is God's will that you be making disciples how much fault is yours if the disciple that you have made deviates from the Truth that is in Jesus and carries others away with him?
Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
How much?
You have made a disciple which disciple leaves being taught by Jesus and he doesn't leave alone.
He brings other would be disciples of Jesus with him.
Have you no fault in that? God is merciful and you may beg forgiveness and God will forgive you.
But, what if you do not know that your former disciple (yes, yours because you are the one teaching him) has deviated and taken a little one with him? Then do you assume that you will be forgiven?
Now, why would you think that all the others can not assume to be forgiven?
He brings other would be disciples of Jesus with him.
Have you no fault in that? God is merciful and you may beg forgiveness and God will forgive you.
But, what if you do not know that your former disciple (yes, yours because you are the one teaching him) has deviated and taken a little one with him? Then do you assume that you will be forgiven?
Now, why would you think that all the others can not assume to be forgiven?
It is written that Jesus said, "go, your sins are forgiven, sin no more". Isn't that God's will?
YOU all have changed it. It should read that Jesus tells that man to go make others believe in him.
Why didn't he say it? Why is there only one place in the WHOLE Bible where it says our job is to get other people to believe in God?
YOU all have changed it. It should read that Jesus tells that man to go make others believe in him.
Why didn't he say it? Why is there only one place in the WHOLE Bible where it says our job is to get other people to believe in God?
No, this is called judging. You game me a site which gave a definition... did I say "Did you believe I didn't know those?"
Now you say I have given mental gymnastics. Why?
Let's back up a minute and think. Is this just a conversation between you and me? Or are their multiple people reading that may NOT have known the definition.
We are continually asked for "please give me a site to support your position". I have presented it with a clean heart, why did you take it in a negative sense?
I'm trying to have a dialogue. Don't know how I can make it any simpler.
Am not sure of the application within the context of "Go and teach" and "Go and make disciples.
I'm not sure how we got here. From verb or noun to why does it say "little flock".
Many times I find it difficult to express what I know I am saying. But let me take it from here:
There is a epoch of time referenced here. How big was his flock? At this time it was little. And from little it went to very few when he spoke about eating my flesh and drinking his blood. But, if indeed he wanted us to preach to the ends of the world, I don't find it difficult to understand that he was to have us continue his example of making disciples and teaching. Certainly Acts gives understanding that other Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists were created.
Without trying to create mental gymnastics, let me look at what was said, (for the benefit of all readers--not that you don't know what it said"
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NIV
19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.NLT
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: KJV
19 Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
In every case, the subject matter are those he is speaking to and thus it is the disciples that go and teach people thus making more disciples. (I am using common grammar understanding)
Do you see it differently? If so, how?