I keep trying to believe in god, but I just can't anymore.

[Bird123]

I deconverted from Catholicism because I stopped believing in the supernatural, realized that the Bible was fallible, and discovered that I was an LGBT person. However, since my deconversion, I've had lots of internal conflict over religion. It has significantly decreased lately, but it's still there to an extent.

For the past few weeks, I've continually shifted between atheism and Christianity. Additionally, I've been reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the same time to remain truly open-minded. For me, Islam is now out of the equation because I can't get over the more violent verses in the Quran and find that the concept of abrogation falsifies the entire religion for me.

I'm kind of an angry person, and my wrath has brought me two injuries lately. One left a scar on my left hand's index finger, and the other fractured my wrist. Since then, I've gotten a lot calmer and less angry, but I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of "sign" from God telling me to come back to him.

When I ask for the holy spirit to come to me, I definitely feel some kind of positive presence, but it could definitely be a placebo. However, no matter what, I just can't get over the contradictions in the Bible, and I disagree with its views on suicide, abortion, gender roles, and LGBT action. I also don't want to be delusional. What should I do?

Angry? Maybe some Hate? When one is full of angry and maybe hate, it is a very emotional state. One tends to stop thinking. Very few answers are discovered without thinking.

Let's look around the universe. Everything works really well. It all adds up perfectly. The only things that do not add up are mostly just misunderstood. The universe is an Action of God. Shouldn't everything about God also add up perfectly?? You bet! When you discover that holy books do not add up, there can be only one reason. They are limited in their true understanding of God. If you base all you know on them, how can you ever really know God?

The true answers are all around you waiting for you to discover them. This is an Action of God. Doesn't one have to struggle to discover any new knowledge? I know many scientists who work very hard at discovery.

God makes no demands. Be who you must. It's a part of the plan. Further, many religions deem people as being flawed from birth. Nothing is further from the truth. We are all Wonderful Works of Art! There is no one in the universe exactly like each one of us, nor will there ever be. I'd say that makes us all pretty Special.


Life is the education of God's children. So many times we choose our own lessons. We learn when our choices return to us and through the interaction with others. Having said that, we are all where we need to be and those around us need our interaction, just as we need them.

The human factor is very complex. This is because there are so many variables. Relax, God has it all figured out.

Since our actions return to us in time, I suggest one looses the anger and hate. Open our hearts to the learning and interaction knowing we are all making a difference. Look around with those Kind Eyes. Everything will look much better.

The Masterpiece that is this world awaits us all. All the interaction is going to be Glorious!!!

 

[FTNZ]

Angry? Maybe some Hate? When one is full of angry and maybe hate, it is a very emotional state. One tends to stop thinking. Very few answers are discovered without thinking.

Let's look around the universe. Everything works really well. It all adds up perfectly. The only things that do not add up are mostly just misunderstood. The universe is an Action of God. Shouldn't everything about God also add up perfectly?? You bet! When you discover that holy books do not add up, there can be only one reason. They are limited in their true understanding of God. If you base all you know on them, how can you ever really know God?

The true answers are all around you waiting for you to discover them. This is an Action of God. Doesn't one have to struggle to discover any new knowledge? I know many scientists who work very hard at discovery.

God makes no demands. Be who you must. It's a part of the plan. Further, many religions deem people as being flawed from birth. Nothing is further from the truth. We are all Wonderful Works of Art! There is no one in the universe exactly like each one of us, nor will there ever be. I'd say that makes us all pretty Special.


Life is the education of God's children. So many times we choose our own lessons. We learn when our choices return to us and through the interaction with others. Having said that, we are all where we need to be and those around us need our interaction, just as we need them.

The human factor is very complex. This is because there are so many variables. Relax, God has it all figured out.

Since our actions return to us in time, I suggest one looses the anger and hate. Open our hearts to the learning and interaction knowing we are all making a difference. Look around with those Kind Eyes. Everything will look much better.

The Masterpiece that is this world awaits us all. All the interaction is going to be Glorious!!!

If there is a plan, and everything works perfectly, how do you explain illness, suffering, famine, violence, and want?

 

[blue taylor]

I deconverted from Catholicism because I stopped believing in the supernatural, realized that the Bible was fallible, and discovered that I was an LGBT person. However, since my deconversion, I've had lots of internal conflict over religion. It has significantly decreased lately, but it's still there to an extent.

For the past few weeks, I've continually shifted between atheism and Christianity. Additionally, I've been reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the same time to remain truly open-minded. For me, Islam is now out of the equation because I can't get over the more violent verses in the Quran and find that the concept of abrogation falsifies the entire religion for me.

I'm kind of an angry person, and my wrath has brought me two injuries lately. One left a scar on my left hand's index finger, and the other fractured my wrist. Since then, I've gotten a lot calmer and less angry, but I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of "sign" from God telling me to come back to him.

When I ask for the holy spirit to come to me, I definitely feel some kind of positive presence, but it could definitely be a placebo. However, no matter what, I just can't get over the contradictions in the Bible, and I disagree with its views on suicide, abortion, gender roles, and LGBT action. I also don't want to be delusional. What should I do?

Why do you assume the Judeo-Christian God is the only one?

 

[Desert Snake]

Realize that if you remove the Jesus resurrection part, this same set of assertions can be used to support virtually any religion or god you choose. That should tell you something about the assertions.

Huh?

 

[Neo Deist]

I deconverted from Catholicism because I stopped believing in the supernatural, realized that the Bible was fallible, and discovered that I was an LGBT person. However, since my deconversion, I've had lots of internal conflict over religion. It has significantly decreased lately, but it's still there to an extent.

For the past few weeks, I've continually shifted between atheism and Christianity. Additionally, I've been reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the same time to remain truly open-minded. For me, Islam is now out of the equation because I can't get over the more violent verses in the Quran and find that the concept of abrogation falsifies the entire religion for me.

I'm kind of an angry person, and my wrath has brought me two injuries lately. One left a scar on my left hand's index finger, and the other fractured my wrist. Since then, I've gotten a lot calmer and less angry, but I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of "sign" from God telling me to come back to him.

When I ask for the holy spirit to come to me, I definitely feel some kind of positive presence, but it could definitely be a placebo. However, no matter what, I just can't get over the contradictions in the Bible, and I disagree with its views on suicide, abortion, gender roles, and LGBT action. I also don't want to be delusional. What should I do?

Look into deism. Many who feel the way that you do, can find the answers they seek without giving up on God. Start with these:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/deism-101.170192/

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/deism-102-supporting-reasons.179690/

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/from-christian-to-deist.178550/

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/deism-aliens.185494/

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/overcoming-the-brainwashing.183269/

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/neo-deism.178691/



.

 

[Druac]

IF there is a god...I want nothing to do with it, other than the fact I would like to pick a few bones with it. However, I see nothing in reality that points to their being one, other than the gods that live within the minds of the believers. Subjective...and all that jazz. We (human societies) created religions and gods...and thus the moralities they espouse. Good without gods happens every day.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

IF there is a god...I want nothing to do with it

If, like me, you don't know whether there is a God or not, why would you say you wouldn't want anything to do with It, without knowing what It is or anything else about it, especially since you wouldn't know anything until you croaked? Keep in mind, that if God does exist, the evidence indicates that we're not gonna know anything until then, or otherwise, oblivion.

other than the fact I would like to pick a few bones with it.

If, as the evidence indicates, God does not interact in the universe, what would you want to bring up other than curiosity items? You imply a grievance. What bones? If your grievance is with one of the many "revealed" (man-made) gods, what kind of answer would you expect....one of the many variations of "God works in mysterious ways" or sun'thin?

However, I see nothing in reality that points to their being one, other than the gods that live within the minds of the believers.

You can dismiss those fantasies and myths, but there is one reality that begs the question of whether there is a God or not--the universe, unless you have an explanation for spontaneous creation I've not heard of yet.

Subjective...and all that jazz. We (human societies) created religions and gods...and thus the moralities they espouse. Good without gods happens every day.

Absolutely it does. And I believe in comes from an inherent understood, naturally derived moral code which we all can abide by or ignore according to our (?God given?) free will.

 

[FTNZ]

You can dismiss those fantasies and myths, but there is one reality that begs the question of whether there is a God or not--the universe, unless you have an explanation for spontaneous creation I've not heard of yet.

Just because I don't have an explanation for why the universe exists, does not mean I should make the leap that it must have been created, and there must have been a creator. I'm comfortable with not knowing why the universe exists. It just exists.

 

[Bird123]

If there is a plan, and everything works perfectly, how do you explain illness, suffering, famine, violence, and want?

Sounds like you do not understand the plan. Further, God doesn't just give you all the answers. God allows you to discover them for yourself. Would I be doing you a favor by telling all? Do you work at discovery or just complain at the first sign of adversity?

All the things you mention are part of God's world. They do play a part. Question? Can not all these problems be solved? You bet!! How is mankind's scorecard at fixing these problems? Yes, it is a work and an education in progress. Different choices bring different results. In time, wisdom will prevail. After all, mankind no longer has many of the problems that were so bad in the past. Example: They bled people and used leaches as medicine in the past. They thought demons possessed people which caused illness. Could the truth ever be discovered without the struggle to understand disease and the human physical body?

Adversity breeds invention. When things are good, we sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we have to think, study, plan, experiment and learn so many things on the path to discovering the Real solutions.Do you really want a world without challenges?

People can make bad choices that hurt when it returns to teach what those choices really mean. There is learning, growing, and advancement. That could never happen for some if they never experienced the truth.

One must remember that no matter what happens, We are all Eternal. Finally, there are wonderful souls who Volunteer to go through Great Adversity in order that others might See, Learn or Understand. They are all around us.

Perhaps, it is human nature to want to have everything our way or to have it made. Perhaps, this is because, deep down, we all know God is capable of just that. On the other hand, Eternity has Purpose. Doing nothing but having it made is really no purpose at all.

 

[FTNZ]

Sounds like you do not understand the plan. Further, God doesn't just give you all the answers. God allows you to discover them for yourself. Would I be doing you a favor by telling all? Do you work at discovery or just complain at the first sign of adversity?

All the things you mention are part of God's world. They do play a part. Question? Can not all these problems be solved? You bet!! How is mankind's scorecard at fixing these problems? Yes, it is a work and an education in progress. Different choices bring different results. In time, wisdom will prevail. After all, mankind no longer has many of the problems that were so bad in the past. Example: They bled people and used leaches as medicine in the past. They thought demons possessed people which caused illness. Could the truth ever be discovered without the struggle to understand disease and the human physical body?

Adversity breeds invention. When things are good, we sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we have to think, study, plan, experiment and learn so many things on the path to discovering the Real solutions.Do you really want a world without challenges?

People can make bad choices that hurt when it returns to teach what those choices really mean. There is learning, growing, and advancement. That could never happen for some if they never experienced the truth.

One must remember that no matter what happens, We are all Eternal. Finally, there are wonderful souls who Volunteer to go through Great Adversity in order that others might See, Learn or Understand. They are all around us.

Perhaps, it is human nature to want to have everything our way or to have it made. Perhaps, this is because, deep down, we all know God is capable of just that. On the other hand, Eternity has Purpose. Doing nothing but having it made is really no purpose at all.

So, no explanation for illness, suffering, famine, violence, and want, then.

Look, I get that you can argue that humans could solve some of these problems if they wanted to, fine. But you can't explain to us why babies are born with extreme disabilities and die at 5 days old, or why 4 year olds die of cancer. They didn't do anything to deserve that. There's often no human failing that led to it. So where is your god and his or her perfect plan in that? NB please remember that some readers have lost loved ones to inexplicable illness before you tell us it was their fault, too.

 

[Bird123]

So, no explanation for illness, suffering, famine, violence, and want, then.

Look, I get that you can argue that humans could solve some of these problems if they wanted to, fine. But you can't explain to us why babies are born with extreme disabilities and die at 5 days old, or why 4 year olds die of cancer. They didn't do anything to deserve that. There's often no human failing that led to it. So where is your god and his or her perfect plan in that? NB please remember that some readers have lost loved ones to inexplicable illness before you tell us it was their fault, too.

Why is it that mankind values Blame so much? It is a useless waste of energy. Isn't it smarter to work at solutions?

Loved ones are Eternal. They are never Lost!! One should value the joys of their lives not the sorry of their absence. It is a Choice we all can make. The True Love of my life died from cancer. I rejoice her life and the joy she gave to me. Change is part of life. It is part of learning and growing. There always comes a time to move on. I love her way too much to stop her from moving forward.

God works on multiple levels with multiple views. All those answers run deep as well. Example: Look at DNA. There is high intelligence behind how that works. It's multiple generational learning.

If one could see the entire picture, one would agree with the choices. The human factor is very complex. That is because there are so many variables. At our level, we could not keep up with it all. Still, one can take a few steps back and look. How has their lives changed others? Look not only at those you know but those you don't. That cancer scientist will work that much harder when a small child dies of cancer. We could not allow a mere lack of effort prevent that cure.

Be who you must it is a part of the plan. Lose the guilt and learn the very best we can. We are all loved Unconditionally by God. There is no need for guilt. Unconditional Love does what is best for the other. God has everyone's best interest at hand. We must all work at widening our view in order to see more of that picture that stares us all in the face.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Just because I don't have an explanation for why the universe exists, does not mean I should make the leap that it must have been created,

I'm not saying you should, only that if you don't know either way, admit it. I'm not claiming that it was created, only that it was caused somehow. It's a dead heat--'less you know sun'thin I don't.

I'm comfortable with not knowing why the universe exists. It just exists.

I'm not comfortable, since it's kind of important, but I've learned to live with it, which means I don't make up stuff to support my ideas.

 

[allfoak]

'm not saying you should, only that if you don't know either way, admit it. I'm not claiming that it was created, only that it was caused somehow. It's a dead heat--'less you know sun'thin I don't.

It's actually not a dead heat if you think about it, you have a working hypothesis that you can test.

 

[allfoak]

If one starts with the idea that there is a more substantial reality that underlies the material one, then we can begin to use our reasoning faculty to determine what we can know about this underlying reality.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

It's actually not a dead heat if you think about it, you have a working hypothesis that you can test.

The working hypothesis is the God did it.....or that God didn't. There isn't the first stitch of evidence either way because the Big Bang appears to be a perfect(ly designed) firewall--or at least it's perfectly isolates any information on the other side.

If one starts with the idea that there is a more substantial reality that underlies the material one, then we can begin to use our reasoning faculty to determine what we can know about this underlying reality.

That's like starting with the idea that there's a God, which most people do/did. All we know, or have learned, so far, is the reality of this natural, rational universe. But we don't have a clue about what's "outside". It's like all those Earth-centered pre-Copernican "scientists" claiming that the Earth (and then the Sun) was the center of the universe. The only rational course is to keep our options open. Fool us once, shame on us. Fool us a thousand times, shame on somebody besides me.

 

[allfoak]

The only rational course is to keep our options open.

For what?
I have already tested the hypothesis.
I have no need to wait for someone else to tell me what i already know.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

For what?
I have already tested the hypothesis.
I have no need to wait for someone else to tell me what i already know.

What do you already know, and how did you come by it?

 

[allfoak]

"I know" is a phrase that Carl Jung used when asked if he believed in God.
He said: " I don't have to believe I know".
this is an inner knowledge called Gnosis.
It comes from expanding the mind and consciousness.
The way that this expansion happens and knowledge is obtained, is by doing this:

Gospel of Thomas
saying 22:

Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

"I know" is a phrase that Carl Jung used when asked if he believed in God.
He said: " I don't have to believe I know".
this is an inner knowledge called Gnosis.
It comes from expanding the mind and consciousness.
The way that this expansion happens and knowledge is obtained, is by doing this:l

People do all that, and the next thing they "know", the World is flat.

Self-induced euphoria is a real feeling, but knowledge is not felt, it is learned. Like a ship without reason at the helm which will run off course and eventually onto the rocks, without faith as the motivating force that moves it, it is dead in the water. Faith/emotions are the motivation which must be steered by reason for reason to be enabled by it.

 

[allfoak]

People do all that, and the next thing they "know", the World is flat.

Self-induced euphoria is a real feeling, but knowledge is not felt, it is learned. Like a ship without reason at the helm which will run off course and eventually onto the rocks, without faith as the motivating force that moves it, it is dead in the water. Faith/emotions are the motivation which must be steered by reason for reason to be enabled by it.

If i were to say anything different i would be a liar.
Think what you will of course.